MPC Live Keygroups - impossible to set Cutoff on Q-Link

surfhai wrote:

BKmpclive wrote:The man makes a good point, it aint complaining, I wondered why the function was not there as well. It's a logical creative step that could and should be done as well on the program level when using Qlinks. It's a good point!!

BKmpclive wrote:Even in project mode the function only is PAD NOT Whole program....I think this is what is meant?

Thank you BKmpclive, you know what i´m talking about.

If you are happy with the Essential Programs or use your samples like they are, then you do not need this function. But If you often change the instrument and you want fast and easy manipulate the sound, then it is very annoying to have to repeat the same procedure every time, insert a effect into a track and put them to the q-link. ......
And this function that I mean is not possible, even if I read the manual 100 times.

I phoned the German Akai MPC Support and the man on the other side understood immediately what I mean. During the conversation, we also found a solution, but he came to the solution himself. There should be a possibility to create a global q-link section which is static and will not get lost when keygroups are changed and so on. AKAI do not have to reinvent the MPC, the programmers simply have to add this function to the existing one. It´s only a computer inside the case. The „old“ users can work as before and the „new“ users can work as usual. All are happy.
I think it also depends on what kind of music you make, whether you need this option or not. Over the years, for me the MPC stood for HipHop. But because of the new concept, touchdisplay, autosampler, internal synthesizer …. , the mpc became interesting for me. If you make Gospel you don´t need this feature that i mean, if you make HipHop maybe you need this feature, if you make House/ Frenchhouse / Techhouse like me, it does not work without this feature, if you want make music fast and direct and that is the point.
Remember, with the new features, not only the MPC has evolved, it is now also addressed to a new usergroup. I think it is not helpful to stand up and tell them: learn the basics, that's the way it is, it work like this, take it or leave. That kind of thinking is „forward into the past“. I also do not complain, I do not want to rewrite the entire MPC concept. I would like to try to make this great product even better. Not without a reason, the competitor pioneer has put four big buttons on the top of the toraiz sp-16 and written fat „Dave Smith Filter“ next to it, if nobody would use them And I throw no 1000 euro out of the window, if I was not convinced of the mpc-live and the potential. This is just a small point a little feature, and I think there would be improve the MPC-Live. I am firmly convinced that sooner or later even more „new“ users will be facing the same problem as me. Yes it is another workflow and I am absolutely convinced that if akai makes my wish come true, you will wonder why it has not always been like that. How much time you have given away to do the same thing over and over again, for the same result, for example: put a filter in the insert ... and so on. It could be a lot easier. I was not born with my kind of workflow. My workflow was characterized by the construction of nearly every hard- and software synthesizer and sampler i used in my live. And i think every user of the mpc-live, who comes from this direction, will sit completely perplexed in front of his mpc-live and can not believe, that this (in my opinion) normal basics are not possible, fast and direct, with the MPC-Live at this moment. But that's not bad, that's why I'm here and try to give an inspiration, just think about it. To open your and my mind. As I said, I do not complain, I see it as an improvement for ALL user.

EDIT:

I do not know if all readers of this post can really understand what I am talking about. Therefore a small task.
Power on your mpc-live. Choose the empty Akai Standart Project. Try to produce a Frenchdiscohouse song with the help of the included sound library´s and essential instruments. I mean a really FHD-Song, with all the filter up and down´s and so on.

After 2 - 3 hours of work, please come back here and start reading again. I am very excited to your opinion.

And if you think, this is a good idea and a useful feature, write a e-mail to the AKAI Support. Only then will something change. Because the support collects all requests and give them to the developers, according to their priority

Seriously - as good whole Akai MPC Live is good (especially after 2.4 update) I still can't figure it out.
I created keygroup program - very short waveform looped, so it creates a nice synthetic pad. Added effects some LFO modultation on amp / filters / frequency etc.
BUT.
I can't assign cut off frequency of filter THAT IS NOT AS AN INSERT. Reason is I wan't that to be like a simple synthesizer. Please - correct me if I'm wrong.
I've read this post 5 times and agree with you 110%.
Cheers

Yeah man. I hate the thing because of this. Such a let down! It is so fruatrating having only a tease. Finding that sweet wave function with the fx making it perfect, and with no way whatsoever to keep it or follow further into the creation. I rely on fx as instrumentation, and NEED the knobs for bringing life. We need to be able to sculp our sounds nd capture them, but the automations are a joke.

I found a long, troublesome way to set some fx to PROGRAM Q-link block, and also the far left Q-link block. I used *learn* to b we gin the process at times.

Anither way is to... shit, I'll have to run thru it again myself and get back to You. I need to cool out at the moment after having my day ruined by the incompetent Live.

Ok Lemme get this right...You cannot automate different Parameters in the Effects and other areas with Q-Links using Automation? Im able to do it. Are you guys talking about in a Live Situation? Or Recording?

I’ve just registered to reply to this old thread. I can’t believe this limitation, and I can’t believe that a year and a half later it’s still there.

The parameters you can assign to the Q Links in a keygroup program are just nonsense. All the important parameters aren’t there.

Hey folks,

I too am a little confused with how Q-Links work in Keygroup programs.

I think the OP has a valid point. Sure you can throw an insert filter on, but maybe you want to also have the LFO effecting the filter (that you want to Q-Link), that can't be done with an insert (i don't think).

Which brings me to my question: I can't get the Q-Link Global LFO to do anything on a keygroup program.

Or is the global LFO something special which i haven't found yet?

Cheers!

2nd post. I agree. Ridiculous it’s not something simple.

Every single thing I have to google and it’s not even written, I have to watch the same two dudes videos.

So so so much potential and I like it but it’s severely lacking in areas that could easily be implemented. So many flaws. Still cool but ya know....

So maybe this helps for others to understand why you can't do something simple as assigning a Q-link to one of the filters of a keygroup program.

There isn't really a global filter on a keygroup program. You can edit the filter and LFO etc in the UI when you select "keygroup" -> "All", but this is just a UI shortcut for editing a parameter for all the keygroups at once. So let's say you have a program with 25 keygroups, editing a filter when "All" is selected just edits all 25 filters simultaneously.

So it's not a real entity yet that's why you can't automate it. And I think it's a bummer as the filter plays nicely now with the envelope / lfo / velocity etc. It would be so nice if we could automate this.

I agree, a global program filter would be a great addition, along with global program lfo, envelopes etc

maerteijn wrote:So maybe this helps for others to understand why you can't do something simple as assigning a Q-link to one of the filters of a keygroup program.

There isn't really a global filter on a keygroup program. You can edit the filter and LFO etc in the UI when you select "keygroup" -> "All", but this is just a UI shortcut for editing a parameter for all the keygroups at once. So let's say you have a program with 25 keygroups, editing a filter when "All" is selected just edits all 25 filters simultaneously.

So it's not a real entity yet that's why you can't automate it. And I think it's a bummer as the filter plays nicely now with the envelope / lfo / velocity etc. It would be so nice if we could automate this.

If you put a filter as insert fx of the keygroup, you can automate it, you can assign it to a qlink (project mode).

+1.

I was looking for the exact same thing, it’s not possible.

What bothers me, if this could work you could create a self contained program, that you can just load and immediately start messing with the controls. Very useful and gets out of the way when you are in the flow.

The filter insert is a good workaround, but obviously will not be modulated by the envelopes, etc.

On the other hand, I can empathize with the developers as well, this would be an “aggregate” parameter, it would have to be automatable in track mode controlling all keygroups at once, I can see how this would be a non trivial task.

I hope they will consider improving this in the future as it would make keygroup programs very intuitive and just a joy to work with once set up.

We are so close, but not fully there yet unfortunately.

If keygroups were better, it would be more difficult to sell you plugin instruments.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:If keygroups were better, it would be more difficult to sell you plugin instruments.

I think you're underestimating how lazy people are when it comes to sound shaping. So I doubt it would effect his sells. If anything it will only increase sells because he would be able to make better sound packs

Having core functionality of newer MPCs worse than s6000 or z8 is troubling. Why PPL could do it in 2000 - 2004 but cannot do 20 some years later?

Different development teams and different product management teams. Highly unlikely it has any of the same people working on it.

indirect wrote:Having core functionality of newer MPCs worse than s6000 or z8 is troubling. Why PPL could do it in 2000 - 2004 but cannot do 20 some years later?

The current MPC line is effectively built from the ground up, there's no code taken from the Akai legacy product lines. The lead developer of the MPC Software does not, to my knowledge, have any background in hardware sampler firmware coding. But that's beside the point - Akai are not here to be making MPCs that bring in all the features of the past 'and then some'. They are making MPCs that appeal to the biggest and widest audience today, the ones that will generate most $$$$$.

It's not that they 'can't' do any of this, it's that they don't see any logical reason 'to' do it. Obviously it would be great as a developer to be able to have all these features so I can make really cool 'ready built' stuff for MPC users, but I assume (based on the recent releases) that Akai would currently prefer to keep all the really nice features locked up in their own plugins.