I'm thinking of buying a MPC X

This could be a long post so please bear with me!

I made electronic music back in the 90's, Atari running Cubase, sequencing hardware synths and mixing live through an analogue console. I then gave up making music for 15+ years while I recorded 'conventional' bands with Pro Tools. I got back into making music 3 years ago and my first port of call was to get a copy of Cubase because I know it so well. However while I like the MIDI sequencing side of Cubase I just can't get into the audio editing and mixing in Cubase at all. It makes sense as I have mixed 100's of songs in Pro Tools.

My solution was to write in Cubase, with a combination of soft samplers, soft synths and my hardware recorded as audio, once the track is written I export as audio files and mix in Pro Tools. This works fantastically well, I have my writing workflow nailed in Cubase and I have my mixing workflow nailed in Pro Tools, however there is one major annoyance, there is no connect between the writing and mixing phase. I loved how I worked in the 90's, mixing as I was going along, once the track was written, I would tweak a few details of the mix and bam the track was finished. Now and again when it comes to mixing I find I have parts that just don’t fit in the mix that well and that means going back to Cubase and redoing the part. I am happy with the end result but it seems long winded and I can’t help thinking I could work much quicker.

My first thought was to get another computer, run Cubase on one and Pro Tools on the other and sync them together. That could yet be the answer but every time I have Googled syncing two DAW’s the advice is always ‘don’t do it’ I also have a pretty tiny studio and finding room for another keyboard, monitor and mouse won’t be easy and I know I could use a KVM switcher but that seems fiddly. That led me to another solution, using a hardware sequencer synced to Pro Tools, the MPC X looks perfect and I did use an MPC1000 for a while so I am not totally alien to the workflow..

So is anyone else working like this, essentially using an MPC for sequencing and sampling while using Pro Tools for editing, processing and as a digital mixer? I am interested in any comments anyone has. How tight is the sync? Which is better as the master? How are things once you have a lot of plugins on the DAW with long delay compensation? What can Cubase and a soft sampler do that the MPC X can’t that I may miss? I don’t like the idea of the MPC software and running it in controller mode, am I wrong to be put off by this? I would like to be able to just not switch on the DAW at times or work away from the studio with just the MPC at times also.

My solution was to write in Cubase, with a combination of soft samplers, soft synths and my hardware recorded as audio, once the track is written I export as audio files and mix in Pro Tools. This works fantastically well, I have my writing workflow nailed in Cubase and I have my mixing workflow nailed in Pro Tools, however there is one major annoyance, there is no connect between the writing and mixing phase. I loved how I worked in the 90's, mixing as I was going along, once the track was written, I would tweak a few details of the mix and bam the track was finished. Now and again when it comes to mixing I find I have parts that just don’t fit in the mix that well and that means going back to Cubase and redoing the part. I am happy with the end result but it seems long winded and I can’t help thinking I could work much quicker.

The only way is to quicken the work flow, would be to Produce, Track, Edit, and Mix in one Software DAW. Adding the MPC to your setup, would just replace Cubase. You'll still have to do the back and forth.

I have a partner who samples everything into the MPC, but tracks, arranges into the DAW in real time. He uses the MPC, like it's a live instrument. He has more fun actually playing the music, instead of programming. I do this as well, when I want to flow and use my own timing.

TornadoTed wrote:So is anyone else working like this, essentially using an MPC for sequencing and sampling while using Pro Tools for editing, processing and as a digital mixer?

This is how I use my Software DAW. It's for Tracking, Editing, and Mixing first. I find it easier to build the skeleton in the MPC, transfer/tracking to the software DAW, then finish everything else in the DAW.

How tight is the sync?

The sync is okay, however you have the ability to render audio and transfer it via USB KEY. So there's no need to sync it to PT, unless your live tracking and processing the audio with outboard gear.

Which is better as the master?

Pro tools.

How are things once you have a lot of plugins on the DAW with long delay compensation?

Running in standalone, there shouldn't be in issues.

What can Cubase and a soft sampler do that the MPC X can’t that I may miss?

Cubase can do everything the MPC can do, plus more. The advantage the MPC X has is working away from your mixing/tracking station.

I don’t like the idea of the MPC software and running it in controller mode, am I wrong to be put off by this?

I would steer away from this, until they get the MPC Software in a better place.

I would like to be able to just not switch on the DAW at times or work away from the studio with just the MPC at times also.

This works well depending on your compositions. In pro-tools you can add the finishing touches.

With the x you can work away from the computer and then import your pro tools..

The mpc software is just a big screen for a sequencer and basic sampler, no real reason to use it other than for utility.

Charles nailed it for you. Its basically down to you making a choice between sequencers. If you need the comp just get a controller.

You want to write away from the computer, then get some hardware. If you must use a computer just stay in that realm. Another thought is to write on the mpc and track out into pro tools.

You can do everything within the new Mpcs but there are tools that work a lot better for a lot of the aspects. The x might be better for mixing but I But even as a “standalone guy” I prefer ableton and my big speakers.

Thanks for the replies guys.

The only way is to quicken the work flow, would be to Produce, Track, Edit, and Mix in one Software DAW. Adding the MPC to your setup, would just replace Cubase. You'll still have to do the back and forth.

I have a partner who samples everything into the MPC, but tracks, arranges into the DAW in real time. He uses the MPC, like it's a live instrument. He has more fun actually playing the music, instead of programming. I do this as well, when I want to flow and use my own timing.

I have tried, I am all for a simple life, however I can't stand working with MIDI in Pro Tools and I can't stand editing and mixing in Cubase! While it is true that there will still be a lot of back and forth at least I can run an MPC and Pro Tools at the same time which has got to help with workflow. How your partner works is kind of how I envisage me working, getting short loops of music going on the MPC, record and arrange as audio loops in Pro Tools, then add more MPC stuff to the Pro Tools arrangement as I go along.

This is how I use my Software DAW. It's for Tracking, Editing, and Mixing first. I find it easier to build the skeleton in the MPC, transfer/tracking to the software DAW, then finish everything else in the DAW.

Pretty much my plan.

I would steer away from this, until they get the MPC Software in a better place

That's good to know.

With the x you can work away from the computer and then import your pro tools..

The mpc software is just a big screen for a sequencer and basic sampler, no real reason to use it other than for utility.

Charles nailed it for you. Its basically down to you making a choice between sequencers. If you need the comp just get a controller.

You want to write away from the computer, then get some hardware. If you must use a computer just stay in that realm. Another thought is to write on the mpc and track out into pro tools.

You can do everything within the new Mpcs but there are tools that work a lot better for a lot of the aspects. The x might be better for mixing but I But even as a “standalone guy” I prefer ableton and my big speakers.

I'm with you, the only things in my studio that are 100% indispensable are my DAW (Pro Tools) and my monitors/acoustic treatment. In a perfect World AVID would just re-work the MIDI side of Pro Tools from the ground up to rival Cubase/Logic/Ableton and I would be a happy man but I just can't get on with it however hard I try.

For a while I used Pro Tools with a Beatstep Pro, sequencing my hardware synths and recording loops into Pro Tools and arranging in there. That worked really well but had many limitations, polyphonic sequencing, sequence length, only able to sequence 2 synths at once etc. I guess I am looking for a hardware sequencer that can handle my 8 hardware synths. I was drawn to the MPC as I can also use it as a sampler also, I currently use do all my sampling with Groove Agent in Cubase which is based on an MPC workflow, it would replace that while keeping similar workflow.

TornadoTed wrote:For a while I used Pro Tools with a Beatstep Pro, sequencing my hardware synths and recording loops into Pro Tools and arranging in there. That worked really well but had many limitations, polyphonic sequencing, sequence length, only able to sequence 2 synths at once etc. I guess I am looking for a hardware sequencer that can handle my 8 hardware synths. I was drawn to the MPC as I can also use it as a sampler also, I currently use do all my sampling with Groove Agent in Cubase which is based on an MPC workflow, it would replace that while keeping similar workflow.

Pushing your 8 hardware synths, the MPC X will work fine. There are 4 Midi out on the MPC X, however if you have a 8 in/8out MIDI Patch bay, your life would be a lot easier. Are you currently using a MIDI patch bay for those 8 synths?

Pushing your 8 hardware synths, the MPC X will work fine. There are 4 Midi out on the MPC X, however if you have a 8 in/8out MIDI Patch bay, your life would be a lot easier. Are you currently using a MIDI patch bay for those 8 synths?

No I don't have a MIDI patchbay, I currently use a mixture of MIDI over USB and a 4 ESI 4 channel MIDI interface for the few synths I have without USB. I am far from a MIDI 'power user' I never record CC's etc. and do all tweaking live, just re-recording to audio until I get it right.

I have had some pretty complex setups in the past but these days I like to keep it as simple as possible, my arrangements are pretty simple too, 30-40 tracks usually.

TornadoTed wrote:
No I don't have a MIDI patchbay, I currently use a mixture of MIDI over USB and a 4 ESI 4 channel MIDI interface for the few synths I have without USB. I am far from a MIDI 'power user' I never record CC's etc. and do all tweaking live, just re-recording to audio until I get it right.

I have had some pretty complex setups in the past but these days I like to keep it as simple as possible, my arrangements are pretty simple too, 30-40 tracks usually.

That's another downfall of the MPC LIVE/X, you can't send MIDI out over usb. MIDI has to be sent from the 5 PIN. Nevertheless, with the ESE, you won't have to change anything. I use to have a complex setup, from years of buying gear.

I like everything to be direct and as simple as possible. As you know, those are the best systems to have. Easy to trouble shoot and maintain. The goal is to make music, not sit in the studio figuring out why something is not working. So using the MPC X in this way, works very well.

I do wish, they made a MPC X without all the internal sounds and if you delete them from the machine. It causes the MPC X or LIVE to have issues. Other than that, as a basic sampler, sequencer, and controller it works just fine.

Just to throw in $0.02 from a strictly MPC Software user (at this point).. If you buy the X or Live, do NOT buy it intending to use it often in controller mode. You will basically be using the exact same thing only tied to your computer, you might as well keep using Cubase, unless like me, the MPC workflow just works better for you. Its practically useless for anything aside from the included Akai plugins. Some third party plugins seem to work ok, others will introduce significant delay and throw things off by as much as an 1/8th note in the sequencer. Things like Echoboy as an insert will do it easily, and in general it just does not like Sound Toys or certain Waves plugins and those are just the ones Ive used with it. Little Plate likes to somehow cause the CPU itself to skyrocket and peg the CPU meter over time. Your song might play fine for about 8 bars and then here comes the CPU overloading, trying desperately to keep up and you even hear the sample rate start dragging because the computer just cant hang.

If youre buying the hardware, forget about the software, its all about that good old standalone experience.

+1

Monotremata wrote:Just to throw in $0.02 from a strictly MPC Software user (at this point).. If you buy the X or Live, do NOT buy it intending to use it often in controller mode. You will basically be using the exact same thing only tied to your computer, you might as well keep using Cubase, unless like me, the MPC workflow just works better for you. Its practically useless for anything aside from the included Akai plugins. Some third party plugins seem to work ok, others will introduce significant delay and throw things off by as much as an 1/8th note in the sequencer. Things like Echoboy as an insert will do it easily, and in general it just does not like Sound Toys or certain Waves plugins and those are just the ones Ive used with it. Little Plate likes to somehow cause the CPU itself to skyrocket and peg the CPU meter over time. Your song might play fine for about 8 bars and then here comes the CPU overloading, trying desperately to keep up and you even hear the sample rate start dragging because the computer just cant hang.

If youre buying the hardware, forget about the software, its all about that good old standalone experience.

Good to know but I definitely had no intention of ever using it in controller mode with the software, it would be a purely standalone device to trigger MIDI while I recorded, edit and arrange in Pro Tools.

After a few days thinking hard about this possible change I have come to the conclusion that my first port of call should be to see if I can get Pro Tools and Cubase working on 2 different computers. I have an old laptop and a spare MIDI interface so I can try it out for free. If I can't get this working I will need to decide if I can live without some features I lean pretty heavily on in Cubase if I was to switch to a hardware sequencer. I have thought that maybe some of the features I lean heavily on are actually a bit of a time suck and a much simpler hardware setup may actually free me up a bit. With this in mind I may pick up a MPC Live if I can find one cheap that I can try out and flip for little loss if I don't get on with it.

Anyway long and short I am very early in my journey of deciding which way I go in the future and currently no options are off the table which isn't much help to me!

What you explained is more or less exactly how I utilize my MPC X.
When I purchased it a little over a year ago I wanted to have my MPC X be a one stop for everything but unfortunately it's too glitchy/buggy when trying to use 3rd party plugins with the MPC. The MPC DAW is pretty decent, but it definitely still needs ton of work in order to become any sort of top 5 daw or fan favorite. Only difference with me though is instead of Pro Tools for mixing, my heart is with FL Studio.
I've also used Pro Tools for 15+ years, but mostly just for audio vocals and to mix vocals, but not the instrumental itself. Let me make my point real quick.

1. I pull up samples with the MPC and chop up samples/lay some drums etc.
I basically get the foundation of the project started on the MPC.
2. Once I dig the foundation of the beat and what I've created on the MPC, I then bounce out those tracks into FL Studio to add more to my project. Such as piano, guitar, synths, etc. Often times I'll lay my hi hats and percussion while in FL Studio as well. I also MIX my instrumental within FL Studio.
3. Once the instrumental is perfect and ready to lay vocals over, that's when I finally use Pro Tools. I use Pro Tools to record my vocals and to mix my vocals as well. Sometimes I'll do a little touch up to the final mix while in Pro Tools, but very rarely.

So that's how I utilize my MPC with other DAWS. Sounds almost exactly like you're describing except I prefer FL Studio for laying melodies/mixing etc. and Pro Tools only for my vocal recording/mixing.

TornadoTed wrote:This could be a long post so please bear with me!

I made electronic music back in the 90's, Atari running Cubase, sequencing hardware synths and mixing live through an analogue console. I then gave up making music for 15+ years while I recorded 'conventional' bands with Pro Tools. I got back into making music 3 years ago and my first port of call was to get a copy of Cubase because I know it so well. However while I like the MIDI sequencing side of Cubase I just can't get into the audio editing and mixing in Cubase at all. It makes sense as I have mixed 100's of songs in Pro Tools.

My solution was to write in Cubase, with a combination of soft samplers, soft synths and my hardware recorded as audio, once the track is written I export as audio files and mix in Pro Tools. This works fantastically well, I have my writing workflow nailed in Cubase and I have my mixing workflow nailed in Pro Tools, however there is one major annoyance, there is no connect between the writing and mixing phase. I loved how I worked in the 90's, mixing as I was going along, once the track was written, I would tweak a few details of the mix and bam the track was finished. Now and again when it comes to mixing I find I have parts that just don’t fit in the mix that well and that means going back to Cubase and redoing the part. I am happy with the end result but it seems long winded and I can’t help thinking I could work much quicker.

My first thought was to get another computer, run Cubase on one and Pro Tools on the other and sync them together. That could yet be the answer but every time I have Googled syncing two DAW’s the advice is always ‘don’t do it’ I also have a pretty tiny studio and finding room for another keyboard, monitor and mouse won’t be easy and I know I could use a KVM switcher but that seems fiddly. That led me to another solution, using a hardware sequencer synced to Pro Tools, the MPC X looks perfect and I did use an MPC1000 for a while so I am not totally alien to the workflow..

So is anyone else working like this, essentially using an MPC for sequencing and sampling while using Pro Tools for editing, processing and as a digital mixer? I am interested in any comments anyone has. How tight is the sync? Which is better as the master? How are things once you have a lot of plugins on the DAW with long delay compensation? What can Cubase and a soft sampler do that the MPC X can’t that I may miss? I don’t like the idea of the MPC software and running it in controller mode, am I wrong to be put off by this? I would like to be able to just not switch on the DAW at times or work away from the studio with just the MPC at times also.

What you explained is more or less exactly how I utilize my MPC X.
When I purchased it a little over a year ago I wanted to have my MPC X be a one stop for everything but unfortunately it's too glitchy/buggy when trying to use 3rd party plugins with the MPC. The MPC DAW is pretty decent, but it definitely still needs ton of work in order to become any sort of top 5 daw or fan favorite. Only difference with me though is instead of Pro Tools for mixing, my heart is with FL Studio.
I've also used Pro Tools for 15+ years, but mostly just for audio vocals and to mix vocals, but not the instrumental itself. Let me make my point real quick.

1. I pull up samples with the MPC and chop up samples/lay some drums etc.
I basically get the foundation of the project started on the MPC.
2. Once I dig the foundation of the beat and what I've created on the MPC, I then bounce out those tracks into FL Studio to add more to my project. Such as piano, guitar, synths, etc. Often times I'll lay my hi hats and percussion while in FL Studio as well. I also MIX my instrumental within FL Studio.
3. Once the instrumental is perfect and ready to lay vocals over, that's when I finally use Pro Tools. I use Pro Tools to record my vocals and to mix my vocals as well. Sometimes I'll do a little touch up to the final mix while in Pro Tools, but very rarely.

So that's how I utilize my MPC with other DAWS. Sounds almost exactly like you're describing except I prefer FL Studio for laying melodies/mixing etc. and Pro Tools only for my vocal recording/mixing.

Thanks for the response, it's great to hear peoples workflows with MPC and DAW, much appreciated.