Sample edit & mapping to pads - query

Could be an easy one to answer, as im opening this thread i think i have the answer but in case!
I am working with a pad type of sample and want to have several copies of it but each tuned differently within a program.
1: Do i have to copy the sample & map them all to the desired pad & then tune each individually? As i am writing this , it feels like the
most logical approach but is there a better way to work with 1 sample rather than duplicate? should i be conservative with the memory used within my project , is there better way to manage this?
2: should i use a drum program although sample isnt perc/drum or go with midi?

Silly question i guess but thanks for pointing me in the right direction

You can use a DRUM or KEYGROUP program or even 16 LEVELS.

If you use a DRUM program you don't make physical copies of a sample, you simply assign the same sample to multiple pads and tune differently. Or assign the sample to a single pad and use 16 LEVELS.

With KEYGROUP programs, you assign your sample to a keygroup, set the correct root note on your sample layer (to tell the MPC what pitch the sample is) and set a pitch 'range' for that sample to cover (which by default will spread that sample across all pads).

Maybe DRUM or 16 LEVELS is the way forward, especially if you only have a single sample to work with. Investigate these a bit further in the manual and come back with some specific questions. I also cover all these techniques and more in the MPC Bible (link in my signature).

Actually i think i ve worked it out! Using assign -> make new sample-> desired pad!
Am i doing it right ? I.e most efficient flow?

No, you don't need to make additional samples. Go to program edit > samples and simply assign your one sample to multiple pads and then change the tuning on each pad. Each pad uses the same sample but with different parameters to make it sound different. That's one of the core benefits of programs

Thanks for the quick reply, will look into it..
As i am working on my first ever project on an mpc, im trying to figure things as i go along.. always (perhaps wrongly) thinking ‘ this is how id do it on Ableton’ but have to get use to workflow/ interface.. not easy but getting there slowly

MPC-Tutor wrote:You can use a DRUM or KEYGROUP program or even 16 LEVELS.

If you use a DRUM program you don't make physical copies of a sample, you simply assign the same sample to multiple pads and tune differently. Or assign the sample to a single pad and use 16 LEVELS.

With KEYGROUP programs, you assign your sample to a keygroup, set the correct root note on your sample layer (to tell the MPC what pitch the sample is) and set a pitch 'range' for that sample to cover (which by default will spread that sample across all pads).

Maybe DRUM or 16 LEVELS is the way forward, especially if you only have a single sample to work with. Investigate these a bit further in the manual and come back with some specific questions. I also cover all these techniques and more in the MPC Bible (link in my signature).

I came from Ableton myself... and it's a much different environment.

The main things to get your head wrapped around on the MPC is sampling and sample management, programs (drums and key groups mostly), tracks and how to drop notes across various tracks to group things, and sequences to hold each section of your song.

Where you can do really cool things with samples in Ableton along the lines of warping and such, you don't have this facility as much on the MPC. On the MPC you really want to be thinking about One Shots (or Note On) for a sample, and for loops you frequently want to chop it up so you can flip the sample. Learn how to do trimming and chopping... while similar on Ableton in Simpler and Sampler... if you get into it you'll also get a sense for what makes it different and creates a different sound.

Ableton Drum Rack is pretty much equivalent to the MPC Drum Kit Program... and where I appreciate the MPC style more is in the space of leveraging 16 LEVEL and Q-Links... I don't have a Ableton Push, but I imagine this feels similar in some ways. Ableton Sampler is pretty similar to MPC Key Group Programs... you can probably functionality think of them as similar as far as programming instruments and sounds go.

I would suggest considering Ableton Clips as comparable to MPC Tracks. Though I will caution you... where a lot of folks tend to make mistakes is that they'll create a drum program with lots of cool sounds, one shots, chords, fx, Vox, and such... and then just record everything onto a single Track. For practicing and playing around this is fine, but if you are trying to build a song you really want to think of each MPC Track as an Ableton Clip. Just like you typically do not want an Ableton Clip to have a full combination of your drums, bass, instrumentals, etc... in one clip most of the time, similarly you generally do not want to do this in an MPC Track either. Just be warned... you're best to get in the habit of making each track Kick/Snare/Hat/Bass/Piano, or at least Drums/Bass/Lead... trust me, it will help you keep your sanity later on from having to Track -> Copy and then Erase events from each track... or having to do a Track Explode and then join things back together that are related.

Finally... I'd highly suggest thinking of your Ableton Arrangement similarly to your MPC Sequence, in particular... consider that you want your MPC Tracks and Programs to be the same Sequence over Sequence (but maybe playing different patterns), because similar to Ableton Arrangement... it gets complicated to have Snares in your Hats Ableton lanes... and in particular on the MPC... things can get wonky.

All that said... these are all suggestions and gross over generalizations. Don't feel like any of this is hard and fast, but just things to keep in mind when trying to learn how to think about the MPC with an Ableton mindset. None of this is set in stone, but there are things that are made easier to understand if you can grasp this.

Good Luck!

Joy! An Ableton user!
Thank you so much for the detailed response, really appreciate that sincerely.
Have a question for you regarding EQ that is still bugging me/cant warp my head around.
Each pads have a filter section , low 1,2 etc...
With Ableton id stick an eq8 and cut to freq i wanted kick snares etc.. but here we have values for those quick access filter types. Is tgere somewhere a reference guide that points to what values relate in freq? Say i use low 2- how can i make sure that i definitely removed freq above 80hz for instance? Is there a mapping table that can be used?

NearTao wrote:I came from Ableton myself... and it's a much different environment.

The main things to get your head wrapped around on the MPC is sampling and sample management, programs (drums and key groups mostly), tracks and how to drop notes across various tracks to group things, and sequences to hold each section of your song.

Where you can do really cool things with samples in Ableton along the lines of warping and such, you don't have this facility as much on the MPC. On the MPC you really want to be thinking about One Shots (or Note On) for a sample, and for loops you frequently want to chop it up so you can flip the sample. Learn how to do trimming and chopping... while similar on Ableton in Simpler and Sampler... if you get into it you'll also get a sense for what makes it different and creates a different sound.

Ableton Drum Rack is pretty much equivalent to the MPC Drum Kit Program... and where I appreciate the MPC style more is in the space of leveraging 16 LEVEL and Q-Links... I don't have a Ableton Push, but I imagine this feels similar in some ways. Ableton Sampler is pretty similar to MPC Key Group Programs... you can probably functionality think of them as similar as far as programming instruments and sounds go.

I would suggest considering Ableton Clips as comparable to MPC Tracks. Though I will caution you... where a lot of folks tend to make mistakes is that they'll create a drum program with lots of cool sounds, one shots, chords, fx, Vox, and such... and then just record everything onto a single Track. For practicing and playing around this is fine, but if you are trying to build a song you really want to think of each MPC Track as an Ableton Clip. Just like you typically do not want an Ableton Clip to have a full combination of your drums, bass, instrumentals, etc... in one clip most of the time, similarly you generally do not want to do this in an MPC Track either. Just be warned... you're best to get in the habit of making each track Kick/Snare/Hat/Bass/Piano, or at least Drums/Bass/Lead... trust me, it will help you keep your sanity later on from having to Track -> Copy and then Erase events from each track... or having to do a Track Explode and then join things back together that are related.

Finally... I'd highly suggest thinking of your Ableton Arrangement similarly to your MPC Sequence, in particular... consider that you want your MPC Tracks and Programs to be the same Sequence over Sequence (but maybe playing different patterns), because similar to Ableton Arrangement... it gets complicated to have Snares in your Hats Ableton lanes... and in particular on the MPC... things can get wonky.

All that said... these are all suggestions and gross over generalizations. Don't feel like any of this is hard and fast, but just things to keep in mind when trying to learn how to think about the MPC with an Ableton mindset. None of this is set in stone, but there are things that are made easier to understand if you can grasp this.

Good Luck!

There may be some specs that discuss cutoff frequencies for those filters... but...

You can also add an insert effect per pad, so you can use one (or more) insert effects when you are in program mode so that you can do surgical EQ work per pad.

Following up on your reply as i am digesting your tips/info..

You are advising to make a track for each drum components e.g. kick;snares;hats etc..
I would have had this approach using live only due to the fact that i would use audio files (never used simpler as a drum program/ pad)but since a drum program has possibility to sculpt sound at pad level is it still relevant?
I guess the suggested approach is useful if i were to hook each channels using soundcard to live and master them as a whole? Or am i missing something?

I plan on using as much as possible the mpc without my computer i.e stand-alone/ one music production solution.
But what are the benefits if perhaps you can develop on this please?


Edit: i really want to understand the cut off values/ratio to each filters 0/127
Any topics previously written on this?
I am so Ableton institutionalised that 0/127 value doesn’t speak to me at all , while it seems the most well suited flow to sculpt a pad

Edit2: my apologies if questions sound basics.
Definitely challenging myself in dropping Ableton altogether and the worklfow i leaned and got comfortable with. For various reasons , i decided to go with mpc & no computer.. although i 100% weighed pros & cons to start from scratch e.g learn a new O.S / flow.. i realise fully now how much my workflow depends on Knowledge gained using Ableton.. it is tough to start from new again, specially when i have young children (dedicated parent )and cant afford to spend as much time as i did with Ableton since 2004..
So my learning curve is high and slow due to family commitments..


Edit3: since you ve used Ableton, is there an approach/ setup that you can recommend to split frequencies on a given pad ( on Ableton id use chain group , put eq on low, then another chain with a phase utility and another eq for high freq) doing so i can apply a flanger/ reverb etc on just the high freq of a sound
Thanks

NearTao wrote:I came from Ableton myself... and it's a much different environment.

The main things to get your head wrapped around on the MPC is sampling and sample management, programs (drums and key groups mostly), tracks and how to drop notes across various tracks to group things, and sequences to hold each section of your song.

Where you can do really cool things with samples in Ableton along the lines of warping and such, you don't have this facility as much on the MPC. On the MPC you really want to be thinking about One Shots (or Note On) for a sample, and for loops you frequently want to chop it up so you can flip the sample. Learn how to do trimming and chopping... while similar on Ableton in Simpler and Sampler... if you get into it you'll also get a sense for what makes it different and creates a different sound.

Ableton Drum Rack is pretty much equivalent to the MPC Drum Kit Program... and where I appreciate the MPC style more is in the space of leveraging 16 LEVEL and Q-Links... I don't have a Ableton Push, but I imagine this feels similar in some ways. Ableton Sampler is pretty similar to MPC Key Group Programs... you can probably functionality think of them as similar as far as programming instruments and sounds go.

I would suggest considering Ableton Clips as comparable to MPC Tracks. Though I will caution you... where a lot of folks tend to make mistakes is that they'll create a drum program with lots of cool sounds, one shots, chords, fx, Vox, and such... and then just record everything onto a single Track. For practicing and playing around this is fine, but if you are trying to build a song you really want to think of each MPC Track as an Ableton Clip. Just like you typically do not want an Ableton Clip to have a full combination of your drums, bass, instrumentals, etc... in one clip most of the time, similarly you generally do not want to do this in an MPC Track either. Just be warned... you're best to get in the habit of making each track Kick/Snare/Hat/Bass/Piano, or at least Drums/Bass/Lead... trust me, it will help you keep your sanity later on from having to Track -> Copy and then Erase events from each track... or having to do a Track Explode and then join things back together that are related.

Finally... I'd highly suggest thinking of your Ableton Arrangement similarly to your MPC Sequence, in particular... consider that you want your MPC Tracks and Programs to be the same Sequence over Sequence (but maybe playing different patterns), because similar to Ableton Arrangement... it gets complicated to have Snares in your Hats Ableton lanes... and in particular on the MPC... things can get wonky.

All that said... these are all suggestions and gross over generalizations. Don't feel like any of this is hard and fast, but just things to keep in mind when trying to learn how to think about the MPC with an Ableton mindset. None of this is set in stone, but there are things that are made easier to understand if you can grasp this.

Good Luck!

wookieewookiee wrote:
You are advising to make a track for each drum components e.g. kick;snares;hats etc..
I would have had this approach using live only due to the fact that i would use audio files (never used simpler as a drum program/ pad)but since a drum program has possibility to sculpt sound at pad level is it still relevant?

I am suggesting that you consider doing this. In the MPC it is typically much easier to work with Track Mutes... so you can quickly mute out drums, hats, bass, melody, lead, etc... especially when you want to move onto stringing multiple sequences together to create a song.

You can accomplish a similar thing with Pad mutes, but Pad mutes and Track mutes work fundamentally differently. Track mutes will only apply to the track, so if you change sequences it will use whatever the state of the Track is when you move to the next track. While Pad Mutes carry over between sequences.

wookieewookiee wrote:I guess the suggested approach is useful if i were to hook each channels using soundcard to live and master them as a whole? Or am i missing something?

I'm not quite sure what you are inferring here... so would need a bit more of an explanation. However, that said, you can send your audio tracks out to Master or 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8... There are also eight sub mixes you can send to so that you can still have one submix for drums, one for bass, or whatever you need.

wookieewookiee wrote:I plan on using as much as possible the mpc without my computer i.e stand-alone/ one music production solution.

Cool, though I would suggest keeping yourself familiar with Ableton Live... use it where the MPC (or your knowledge) is weak... when you want to finish a song. You should be able to get very quick at knocking out Beats and chopping on the MPC. The reasons to stay in the MPC are absolutely personal... and I guess I am just suggesting that your Ableton Live skills will not always be transferable... do you take the challenge on the MPC to learn a new workflow... or do you take the time to export to ALS and wrap up a song. Choice is obviously yours.

wookieewookiee wrote:But what are the benefits if perhaps you can develop on this please?

The specific benefits for me from moving out of software is to much more severely limit my creative options. I found I spent way too much time messing around with a massive sample library, tons of FX and filters... and a lot of time faffing about in software. That was all *okay*... but what really made me move more into hardware was all the damn hardware and software updates, and I've got some really great plugins that are no longer compatible on my newer hardware. It just stinks to look at that investment, and have to decide if it is really worth the maintenance headache. For me, the answer has been mostly no. I have dramatically cut down my software footprint to things that are available on iOS, and Ableton Live/Reason/MPC Software. I know there is tons of other cool stuff out there, but I am no longer chasing it.

wookieewookiee wrote:i really want to understand the cut off values/ratio to each filters 0/127
Any topics previously written on this?

Possibly, and it is a cool idea... I don't recall something like that in the Bible... maybe Tutor has some knowledge or a pointer? Personally I come from the "sounds good/is good" camp... so I have been more interested in just listening to it, rather than getting a scope or frequency band monitor to figure that out. Also, check out the Air FX... they are a lot more flexible than what is available for filters associated with the Program Mode.

wookieewookiee wrote:I am so Ableton institutionalised that 0/127 value doesn’t speak to me at all , while it seems the most well suited flow to sculpt a pad

If you want to hurt your brain... then check out the OP-1... lol.

wookieewookiee wrote:Edit3: since you ve used Ableton, is there an approach/ setup that you can recommend to split frequencies on a given pad ( on Ableton id use chain group , put eq on low, then another chain with a phase utility and another eq for high freq) doing so i can apply a flanger/ reverb etc on just the high freq of a sound

Uhm... off the top of my head, my suggestion would be to use the send bus, and on each send pull out the frequency with the AIR FX you want in the first or second slot, and then apply the FX you are after in the other slots.

I don't believe there's ever been any work done on mapping the 0-127 filter values to actual frequencies. I'm sure it would be possible using various software tools, but as NearTao says, the program filters are a 'by ear' kinda thing on the MPC, it's always been that way even with legacy MPCs (most of which used a 0-100 scale).

If you want to work with specific frequencies then the EQ and filter FX inserts are the way to go.