Midi Jitter vs Audio Latency on MPC Live - Which is which

Hello MPC Heads!

I am looking for some advice. I want to use my MPC Live as the main brain of my setup, also running Elektron Analog 4 MKii and Analog Rytm MKIi.

I am doing this by sending Midi from the MPC A and B to both devices, using the MPC as the master.
I am routing the audio in the following way, Analog RYTM to Analog 4, Analog 4 into MPC. This setup will be used live and I am using the MPC as a mixer as well.

But, the problem is things are not sounding synced. I recorded some audio from the RYTM using the MPC looper and could clearly see a gap where no audio signal was present in the beginning, a lag. (see photo) After fiddling around in the MPC recording preferences, I found the option to set the length of the record "tail" which by default was 1. I turned this to 0 and tried re-recording the same loop. it did remove that gap at the beginning, but seems the rest of the loop is not in sync still.

So my question, is this just audio latency from the sound having to travel through another device before reaching the MPC, or is this that midi jitter from the MPC i hear about? I do see the Elektron's tempos changing as the sequence is playing, small changes but changes non the less.

If I ran all devices into a separate mixer would that eliminate the problem? Like, would all now have the same latency if that's what's causing this?

I did try switching things up and I made the Analog RYTM the master and ran the MPC audio through it. IT seems this almost fixes the problem, it sounds much tighter (the MPC metronome seems to sync with the RYTM sounds) but this throws a wrench in my live performance ideas. I love MPC"s, always have and want this to work, but it is getting frustrating and I am starting to look at options to replace it. What do you all think is causing this? Any advice is much appreciated.

From my experience and testing the MPC Live is pretty low latency and quite stable. You can find articles from sound on sound or other places that will explain what you need to do in order to record/play midi along with audio to determine what your relative latency is.

That said, I would expect that going through multiple levels of audio in/out/in/out is likely causing the most latency you are experiencing, or at least contributing to it. I'd be curious how much you are experiencing though, and if this is more in the pet peeve territory rather than the discernible "I can definitely hear things are way off" space.

I believe that a mixer would help you hear, by having all outputs routed through the same output, then the only latency you should expect would be from the midi, and possible timing differences that the mixer may add. All things being equal (which, when are they?), you should get less latency with the mixer added to the solution.

so the latency only occurs when you record the audio?

What about just hitting play on the mpc; do the elektrons run in sync with the MPC sequences then?

The tempo change on elektron is normal by the way.

Everything has latency... it is just a matter of how to reduce or limit it.

NearTao wrote: I'd be curious how much you are experiencing though, and if this is more in the pet peeve territory rather than the discernible "I can definitely hear things are way off" space.

Thanks for the reply. It is for sure noticeable. Noticeable enough to where I would not be able to play this live. It sounds like when a DJ is mixing and one record is just a little bit off, a train wreck if you will. It just needs a tiny nudge to sync up. I see my original photo was not showing in my post, here is the lag I could see when I record, which I guess is what im hearing.

bees80 wrote:so the latency only occurs when you record the audio?

What about just hitting play on the mpc; do the elektrons run in sync with the MPC sequences then?

Thanks for the reply. No, it happens when I hit play on the MPC and am trying to jam out ideas. I like to use the Analog RYTM for main drum parts (Kick, snare/clap, hats) and bass, and I use the MPC for additional percussion and other parts, but when I hit overdub on the mpc while playing to record, I can clearly hear the metronome is not synced to the drums coming from the rytm.

I will get a mixer and try running everything through there and see how that sounds.

After trying different combos, I tried putting the MPC back as the master clock, but instead am routing the MPC audio through the Analog audio in port of the Rytm, then still have the Rytm audio running through the Analog 4 and now the output sounds tight. The MPC metronome gets canceled out from falling in line with the other parts, instead of being a little off. Going to run with this if it is working. Sounds awesome when sycned, as it should

After working with the machines all day, I can safely confirm it is better now. The problem was caused by running audio into the MPC and using the MPC as the "mixer", that causes the audio latency. Instead, I am running the MPC audio through the Rytm's analog signal path, zero noticeable audio latency... and I get the added boost of the Rytm's analog compressor and circuitry. So now we know, the MPC is not an Octatrack in that regards by any means, and sadly is not the best option for "Live" performance if you need a hub to run audio into. An external mixer would be necessary unless you have boxes with audio ins like these Elektrons.

still weird the audio in has delay, i run a digitone and a4 (via one midi out, with midi thru) and syncs always tight, also with recording audio tracks if i need one of the sequences in my mpc. Though, they don't go in directly to mpc; they both first go to seperate channels on my mixer, and via an extra headphone output i resample them in the mpc (so i can resample everything connected to my mixer, if needed).

Anyway, happy it's all working now, have funny.

hello, I have similar problem. Set up is; MPC ONE, Digitakt, Beatstep Pro, a bunch of modular CV gear and a couple of Mono Synths. When the MPC is master everything is behind by differing amounts, when the Digitakt is master it's really tight. Haven't figured out why yet. Today I was triggering a CV kick from the MPC and an MPC Drum Synth Kik on the same basic 4\4 rhythm, the two Kiks flammed badly. But only when the MPC is master. When the Digitakt is master and the BSP does the CV as a slave it is super tight, and I begin to enjoy making music again!

dwah wrote:hello, I have similar problem. ... When the Digitakt is master and the BSP does the CV as a slave it is super tight, and I begin to enjoy making music again!

That sounds like a solution rather than a problem!?

FWIW, I've made some measurements of the Force's MIDI and CV gate clock jitter viewtopic.php?f=49&t=214354

I don't think these things will be "fixed" anytime soon, you just have to live with how it is. If you found a configuration that's good for your needs, stick to it and consider yourself lucky.