MPC X, MPC Live, MPC One & MPC Key 61 Forum: Support and discussion for the MPC X, MPC Live, MPC Live II, MPC One & MPC Key 61; Akai's current generation of standalone MPCs.
By Tknapp Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:39 pm
Just got my MPC live II and I LOVE it.

I updated to the most recent firmware and everything, but seem to be having a bug when converting from a song to a sequence.

When I go to play the converted sequence in main, the mutes are super messed up. All my tracks and programs are in the exact same location on each sequence, so that isn't the issue (I'm making one main sequence, then copying that to make each variation sequence, so everything is the same) Both my recorded track mutes and automated pad mutes are all sorts of messed up in the sequence.

I love the song mode workflow, but I'd like to be able to do some little tweaks to the full arrangement sequence after the fact- so this is very frustrating. Is this an MPC issue, or a ME issue?
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By Lampdog Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:47 pm
First, welcome.

It's stated in the manual and many times here on the forums, convert to seq uses the assignments of the very first track. Your going from many sequences to 1, You used track mutes per sequence before, after conversion you have 1 seq, all those track mutes wont be there. Convert BEFORE doing track mutes.

Do track mutes AFTER convert, why, because it's 1 long sequence.

Do this and the procedure gets easier as you get used to it.
By Tknapp Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:50 pm
Gotcha. Thats real annoying, as If I wanted to repeat a section with the same mute arrangement, I'd have to record it twice etc. But thats an Akai design issue, oh well. Thanks Lampdog
By Tknapp Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:47 pm
Yeah, I did search, I was just under the impression that everything talked about there was in regards to track placement, not the recorded mutes etc. I get it now. thanks.
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By MPC-Tutor Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:29 pm
When you convert a song to a sequence, the process adds a track/pad mute 'on' event at 001.01.000 for any track that later features a pad/track mute. For example, if you have a song made up of 4 sequences and the last sequence features a one bar pad mute of the snare, the resulting converted song will feature a pad mute 'on' event at 001.01.000, thus muting the snare for the entire song instead of the final bar. Why? I have no idea, this is clearly a bug IMO.

That said, it is fixable by going to LIST EDIT and manually setting all those mute 'ON' events at 001:01:000 to 'OFF'. But that means going through all tracks to catch all unwanted 001:01:000 track mute 'ON' events, and looking out for all pad mute 'on' events recorded for each used program. PITA, but probably only a few minutes for most beats.

I personally don't use mutes very often (probably for this very reason), I just prefer to erase things either in real time by holding down the ERASE button, and as such don't really come across this bug in my day-to-day workflow.

The other workaround to the mute issue is as lamp says, to initially create your song structure without mutes, convert song to seq, and then jam and record the mutes. Or simply skip song mode completely and just work on building a long sequence from the very outset, perhaps using locate points to jump around the various parts of the sequence. I know many people detest song mode and prefer this more linear approach. And of course there's the requests for a proper 'arrangement' mode like on the Force.

But it is frustrating that convert to seq is hamstrung by this mute issue. Especially if you are only converting to a seq purely to access proper track stem export (which should be there in song mode anyway).
By Tknapp Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:29 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:But it is frustrating that convert to seq is hamstrung by this mute issue. Especially if you are only converting to a seq purely to access proper track stem export (which should be there in song mode anyway).


For sure. To my brain it makes so much sense to use mutes to build up each section of a song. It really felt like a super promising workflow. I don't see why the mutes aren't able to be translated over when stringing sequences together- especially when they work in song mode to begin with- only after converting to a new seq do they create an issue.

I don't love the idea of making a long sequence...that just seems to not use the nature of sequences as building blocks. I love the idea of sketching out different sections and then tackling arrangement after the fact. A real shame that mutes dont translate, feels buggy for sure.
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By Lampdog Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:58 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:For example, if you have a song made up of 4 sequences and the last sequence features a one bar pad mute of the snare, the resulting converted song will feature a pad mute 'on' event at 001.01.000, thus muting the snare for the entire song instead of the final bar. Why? I have no idea, this is clearly a bug IMO.


I noticed that once, moved past it and continued on with other things that worked for me..
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By Ultros Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:38 pm
I very rarely badmouth akai because I like to believe that my MPC is a great tool but yeah.. they really made a piece if crap. It's all software driven and the software is pure and utter crap. It's almost like they put little to no effort into the useability of the software. Jack O'Donnel's akai is not cut from the same cloth, something tells me the MPC lineup may be at the end of its life if they don't put more effort into cloning the true MPC experience. Either that or we must accept that we bought a platform thats still under development and wont actually be a polished end product for some time to come if ever.
By Tknapp Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:18 am
MPC-Tutor wrote:When you convert a song to a sequence, the process adds a track/pad mute 'on' event at 001.01.000 for any track that later features a pad/track mute.


Investigating a bit more, this isn't always true. This is why it is CERTAINLY a bug. If I make a couple sequences, each with lots of pad and track mutes, arrange them into a song, convert>seq I don't ALWAYS get the mutes on 1:01:00.

I totally get why all tracks have to be arranged in the same location etc. But erasing any recorded mutes or automation of pad mutes? That's a bug. Its a *really* annoying bug. It does not say *anything* about that behavior in the manual.
By Seedylee Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:35 pm
It’s for reasons such as this I am almost certainly going to sell my MPC. It’s a usability nightmare. Having to align tracks across sequences to use the Song ro Sew functionality - when the device provides no mechanism for rearranging tracks - feels so half baked. Add in these track mute issues, the lack of the ability to sequence tempo changes etc, it just feels so incredibly half baked.

Given you can buy a brand new computer, a decent controller and Ableton for about the same price as an MPC, it feels like an utter rort.

When old MPCs fetch almost as much second hand as a brand new unit because of the work of one lone hacker (JJ), you have a problem as a company.
By Tknapp Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:58 pm
Seedylee wrote:when the device provides no mechanism for rearranging tracks - feels so half baked. Add in these track mute issues, the lack of the ability to sequence tempo changes etc, it just feels so incredibly half baked.

Totally. Seemingly simple software fixes that just seem to be ignored. I'm coming from a lot of elektron devices where firmware updates happen often-and for a long time (there was a firmware update this year with new features for the 10 year old OT). I mean...just look at Akai's website and I feel like its indicative of their care towards user experience.

That said, I still love this machine. I just want to love it more.
By ace_of_dub Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:56 pm
Tknapp wrote:
Seedylee wrote:when the device provides no mechanism for rearranging tracks - feels so half baked. Add in these track mute issues, the lack of the ability to sequence tempo changes etc, it just feels so incredibly half baked.

Totally. Seemingly simple software fixes that just seem to be ignored. I'm coming from a lot of elektron devices where firmware updates happen often-and for a long time (there was a firmware update this year with new features for the 10 year old OT). I mean...just look at Akai's website and I feel like its indicative of their care towards user experience.

That said, I still love this machine. I just want to love it more.


Let's not pretend that Elektron gear doesn't lack basic capabilities either (no song mode on the digitakt, the inability to save pattern chain is a big defect, on the Octratrack it's impossible to pitch a sample by more than 12 semitones ). So let's not act like Elektron does any better, at least the MPC line has a song mode.

We don't know what's going on at AKAI, how many people are working on the software, how much, ... AKAI should communicate more and I agree that there are a few annoying things like the buggy convert to sequence, the inability to re-order tracks, the inability to link a sequence to a specific plugin patch and other stuffs, but other manufacturers have not delivered a device that does as much than the MPC Line either.

so people can complain all they want, aside from Maschine + which has its own share of problems, there is absolutely no equivalent to the MPC Line on the market. If you're not satisfied by how the MPC line handles arrangement, well, there is a product called AKAI Force.
By Tknapp Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:15 pm
ace_of_dub wrote:Let's not pretend that Elektron gear doesn't lack basic capabilities either (no song mode on the digitakt, the inability to save pattern chain is a big defect, on the Octratrack it's impossible to pitch a sample by more than 12 semitones ). So let's not act like Elektron does any better, at least the MPC line has a song mode.


You're not wrong, but song mode on the DT wasn't supposed to be a feature. Its not something that got half assed, because it just wasn't going to be a feature. It was never intended for the DT to be a song creator- tho I agree that It would be a nice feature.

Part of the reason I got an MPC was for sequence based song mode. Its just frustrating that it *mostly* works, with some weird bugs that haven't seemed to be addressed (and don't seem to bother the community as a whole- so it's unlikely they will be - which also just tells me I'm being whiny :roll: )