MPC X, MPC Live, MPC One & MPC Key 61 Forum: Support and discussion for the MPC X, MPC Live, MPC Live II, MPC One & MPC Key 61; Akai's current generation of standalone MPCs.
By djst Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:02 pm
Just got my MPC One today and some things stood out right away:

1. This is one complex machine! I had to read the manual again and again and still couldn't figure some things out. For example, in order to autosample, you apparently need to first create a new midi program (not a keygroup program, which would make more sense), or it won't let you set the midi channel to use when triggering notes from the external synth. YouTube helped me figure this out.

2. Saving a project takes ages if you have a few autosampled keygroups loaded. Does it overwrite all samples every time you hit save? It seems like really strange behavior to overwrite sample files if they're unedited since the last save, that will no doubt corrupt the SD card over time.

3. Where is the time-synced traditional ping pong stereo delay? I only found one that wasn't time synced to the beat. It feels too basic to not include, am I missing something? The Hype synth has one built in, but I'd rather use insert or send effects on synths to more easily disable them from the mixer before exporting/exploding stems into my computer DAW.

4. Why are some Hype synth settings hidden? I tried to figure out what was oscillating the sound on a preset but disabling the actual oscillator doesn't remove the oscillation. Is there a way to see all settings? Given the complexity of all the other things in this machine, I'm surprised that they attempted to dumb this particular synth down. The Odyssey synth seems to reveal all settings, making it much more fun to use.

5. Coming from the Digitakt/Digitone, this thing feels slow to start and I definitely miss the autosave feature that doesn't get in the way. The MPC autosave is really in your face with a progress bar that goes on forever, sometimes in the middle of a performance. I wish they would make the safe feature smarter (do it in the background, only overwrite files that have been modified).

6. I was surprised about how the autosamper didn't make better use of the tail of each sample. If expect the MPC to set a pad release decay point on a sample that plays from the end point of the sample loop to the very end of the sample.

7. Sampling in general felt more clunky than I'd expect from a machine that was built for sampling. I'll need to read up on the manual a few more times to understand how it all works. For example, I sampled a longer time while pressing individual pads/keys on the Digitakt to record each drum of a song one by one, but I couldn't find a way to automatically chop that long sample up based on transients for example. I had to manually chop it up instead.

8. Another sampling problem I ran into was when sampling a 132 bpm loop of 8 bars from the Digitakt and then trying to chop it up by bpm. I'm guessing that it picks the master bpm of the MPC (there's no way to specify anything else in the sample editor), and I had that set to 132 bpm too. However, the sample was chopped up with a lot of drifting from the first pad that started right on the beat. Any idea why? You'd think that 132 bpm on a Digitakt is the same thing as 132 bpm on an MPC One... :?
By Straker Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:20 pm
A suggestion, take your time to learn the workflow, at the beginning it seems cumbersome but once you learn, it's fast and funny.
I started using autosampler after a year, it's a slow process, and the more they update Mpc, the less I use keygroups because as you say they are heavy on ram and slow to load.
The first thing to learn is how to organize your sequences and tracks inside sequences, and track mutes/pad mutes help a lot.
Then using qlink on project mode and assigning your parameters to qlinks make playable and useable in real time.
Air fx are good, Air delay is a synced ping pong delay if you program L/R balance.
The Air fx come from the bundle it used to be on ProTools, filter gate is excellent and the others are all very good.
Akai fx are not the same level but therr is a very nice granulator and analog delay sounds more organic then Air delay.
My suggestion is to use it standalone and play with sequences and track mutes and qlinks to enter into the workflow.
Chopping samples is a very good feature also, i think Mpc shines at that. You have it on sample edit, you can chop the sample, assign chopes freely to a new program, add fx to any single chop, reverse and so on.
As you are more comfortable with it, you can dig the other features and maybe use it with computer if that is your aim.
I don't use computer, just Mpc standalone and I try to play it like an instrument.
By djst Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:24 am
Straker wrote:A suggestion, take your time to learn the workflow, at the beginning it seems cumbersome but once you learn, it's fast and funny.
... The first thing to learn is how to organize your sequences and tracks inside sequences, and track mutes/pad mutes help a lot.
Then using qlink on project mode and assigning your parameters to qlinks make playable and useable in real time.


Thanks for your input! Yes, there's no doubt that I have a lot to learn about the workflow. To be fair, I had to do a bit of "RTFM" on the Digitone/Digitakt too, but due to the nature of their much simpler DNA, once you figured out a couple of key shortcuts, most of them were instantly transferable to other features. Whereas with the MPC, I feel like nothing is obvious to me (yet) and I keep wishing there was a back button. I'm slowly learning though, for example, I found that pressing 16 Levels / Notes again when in either of those modes takes you out of that again. So effectively, there's a Back button built into every pop up window. (I really would like to maximize the use of buttons rather than the touch screen for maximum efficiency.)

I need to explore the Pad Mute feature for sure. Ideally I'd want the whole drum kit on one track and use pad mutes to alter it, but I'm not sure yet how to alter the state of that track over time (e.g. to swap out sounds at some point in the song) and whether that's more easily handled by copying a sequence and altering between them in Song Mode, or if there's a way to swap the sequence of just one track in a Sequence while keeping the rest unchanged when performing live?

The q-link feature is excellent, I like the ability to hard lock them on the project and use that for live performances. I'm going to try to record some of it as automations too and see how that works for me. The XYFX feature seems fun too, but I don't think it's something I'll use a lot. Maybe on a single Program if it's easy to switch the active program when live jamming.

Straker wrote:I started using autosampler after a year, it's a slow process, and the more they update Mpc, the less I use keygroups because as you say they are heavy on ram and slow to load.


Indeed, this seems to bring the device down to a crawl when saving and loading. That's a shame, because in theory, it's an excellent feature that can really open up your sound palette. I wish there was a way to create the full autosampled keygroup, but then to only really load/use the keygroup parts that are in use in the song. So, if I have a keygroup spanning 8 octaves but only use it for a bass sound, it would dynamically offload all the other octaves and ignore those when loading/saving the project.

Straker wrote:Air fx are good, Air delay is a synced ping pong delay if you program L/R balance.
The Air fx come from the bundle it used to be on ProTools, filter gate is excellent and the others are all very good.
Akai fx are not the same level but therr is a very nice granulator and analog delay sounds more organic then Air delay.


Thanks for the tip! I thought I went through them all but I clearly missed this. AIR Delay is exactly what I was looking for. :) I look forward to playing with the granulator FX too, Grain is one of my favorite synths in Reason.

Straker wrote:Chopping samples is a very good feature also, i think Mpc shines at that. You have it on sample edit, you can chop the sample, assign chopes freely to a new program, add fx to any single chop, reverse and so on.


The sample chopping feature was a bit of a disappointment for me initially, but I'll keep trying. I really can't figure out why the tempo seems completely out of sync when sampling just a few bars from one digital device to another, both set at 132 bpm. I wanted to play around with a drum loop to see how I might take it into new territory using the MPC step sequencer, but I ended up giving up trying to chop up 16 x 8 samples manually for 8 bars of looping. I'll read the manual again and see what I'm doing wrong.


Straker wrote:My suggestion is to use it standalone and play with sequences and track mutes and qlinks to enter into the workflow.
...
As you are more comfortable with it, you can dig the other features and maybe use it with computer if that is your aim.
I don't use computer, just Mpc standalone and I try to play it like an instrument.


For sure! My plan is definitely to use it standalone - the sampling into it was just something I had looked forward to, so I had to try out autosampler and sample chopping.

The reason why I bought the MPC One is because I felt that while the Digitakt/Digitone are amazingly fun and creatively inspiring devices, I'm getting stuck with song "ideas/embryos" and I have to remember how to perform them as a real song. They're really meant for live performances, and while I love that aspect of the in-the-moment creativity, I want the ability to "write down" those happy accidents and cool ideas rather than having to perform them manually again and again every time I start the song. The MPC One, in theory at least, offers the ability to automate all of those fun live performances so that I basically only have to do it well once, and then I can play it back as often as I like, and fine tune the imperfect parts along the way. That's what I'm hoping to evaluate and if it works well, I'm probably going to end up selling the Elektron boxes and use the MPC One alone. I'll need to learn it fast though, as this is no doubt one complex beast! :D

Regarding using it with my computer DAW (Reason 10), my plan is to try to turn songs into 80% completion completely standalone, and then use the DAW for the final touches and mixing. The ability to export stems is what I'm planning on using, and the track explode looks amazing. Though I have a lot to learn before getting to this point, because if I understand correctly, I'll need to master the Song Mode before this is possible due to it not supporting track explodes when exporting multiple sequences. Workflow workflow workflow.

Thanks again for your input, it's really helpful!
By djst Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:30 am
jpeg wrote:had the digitakt once i found that workflow was super complex; so sold it quick

That's really interesting. I guess I can understand it because the workflow is non-obvious until you read the manual and learn the shortcuts. After that, it's insanely fast. I like to compare it with Street Fighter II - if you hand over a gamepad to someone who has never played the game, they will do nothing but press buttons and hope to deliver a punch here and there. But if you tell them to press "down-forward and then X" quickly to throw a fire ball, that knowledge suddenly opens up a door to learn how to play 5-6 other characters. And from there on, you realize that all those key combos are the same/similar across the entire video game.

It's the same thing with the Digitakt: once you learn how easy it is to copy a trig in the step sequencer, you have automatically learned how to copy a sound, a pattern (the Elektron equivalent to a Sequence in the MPC), a track (the midi notes in a pattern), and so on. So, copying a pattern is a 1 second operation on these machines. How fast can a Sequence be duplicated on an MPC and can it be done with no touch screen interaction? I'm still learning so I don't know the answer, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a bit more than a second. :)

What makes the Elektron boxes problematic for me has to do with the fact that there is no song mode, and they were meant for live performances. I'm not a live performer, I like to finish songs and tweak the details of it to perfection. So, I'm more of a DAW kind of person, except I love hardware and love excuses to not sit in front of my computer more than when at my daytime work. :)
By Straker Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:18 pm
djst wrote:
Straker wrote:A suggestion, take your time to learn the workflow, at the beginning it seems cumbersome but once you learn, it's fast and funny.
... The first thing to learn is how to organize your sequences and tracks inside sequences, and track mutes/pad mutes help a lot.
Then using qlink on project mode and assigning your parameters to qlinks make playable and useable in real time.


Thanks for your input! Yes, there's no doubt that I have a lot to learn about the workflow. To be fair, I had to do a bit of "RTFM" on the Digitone/Digitakt too, but due to the nature of their much simpler DNA, once you figured out a couple of key shortcuts, most of them were instantly transferable to other features. Whereas with the MPC, I feel like nothing is obvious to me (yet) and I keep wishing there was a back button. I'm slowly learning though, for example, I found that pressing 16 Levels / Notes again when in either of those modes takes you out of that again. So effectively, there's a Back button built into every pop up window. (I really would like to maximize the use of buttons rather than the touch screen for maximum efficiency.)

I need to explore the Pad Mute feature for sure. Ideally I'd want the whole drum kit on one track and use pad mutes to alter it, but I'm not sure yet how to alter the state of that track over time (e.g. to swap out sounds at some point in the song) and whether that's more easily handled by copying a sequence and altering between them in Song Mode, or if there's a way to swap the sequence of just one track in a Sequence while keeping the rest unchanged when performing live?

The q-link feature is excellent, I like the ability to hard lock them on the project and use that for live performances. I'm going to try to record some of it as automations too and see how that works for me. The XYFX feature seems fun too, but I don't think it's something I'll use a lot. Maybe on a single Program if it's easy to switch the active program when live jamming.

Straker wrote:I started using autosampler after a year, it's a slow process, and the more they update Mpc, the less I use keygroups because as you say they are heavy on ram and slow to load.


Indeed, this seems to bring the device down to a crawl when saving and loading. That's a shame, because in theory, it's an excellent feature that can really open up your sound palette. I wish there was a way to create the full autosampled keygroup, but then to only really load/use the keygroup parts that are in use in the song. So, if I have a keygroup spanning 8 octaves but only use it for a bass sound, it would dynamically offload all the other octaves and ignore those when loading/saving the project.

Straker wrote:Air fx are good, Air delay is a synced ping pong delay if you program L/R balance.
The Air fx come from the bundle it used to be on ProTools, filter gate is excellent and the others are all very good.
Akai fx are not the same level but therr is a very nice granulator and analog delay sounds more organic then Air delay.


Thanks for the tip! I thought I went through them all but I clearly missed this. AIR Delay is exactly what I was looking for. :) I look forward to playing with the granulator FX too, Grain is one of my favorite synths in Reason.

Straker wrote:Chopping samples is a very good feature also, i think Mpc shines at that. You have it on sample edit, you can chop the sample, assign chopes freely to a new program, add fx to any single chop, reverse and so on.


The sample chopping feature was a bit of a disappointment for me initially, but I'll keep trying. I really can't figure out why the tempo seems completely out of sync when sampling just a few bars from one digital device to another, both set at 132 bpm. I wanted to play around with a drum loop to see how I might take it into new territory using the MPC step sequencer, but I ended up giving up trying to chop up 16 x 8 samples manually for 8 bars of looping. I'll read the manual again and see what I'm doing wrong.


Straker wrote:My suggestion is to use it standalone and play with sequences and track mutes and qlinks to enter into the workflow.
...
As you are more comfortable with it, you can dig the other features and maybe use it with computer if that is your aim.
I don't use computer, just Mpc standalone and I try to play it like an instrument.


For sure! My plan is definitely to use it standalone - the sampling into it was just something I had looked forward to, so I had to try out autosampler and sample chopping.

The reason why I bought the MPC One is because I felt that while the Digitakt/Digitone are amazingly fun and creatively inspiring devices, I'm getting stuck with song "ideas/embryos" and I have to remember how to perform them as a real song. They're really meant for live performances, and while I love that aspect of the in-the-moment creativity, I want the ability to "write down" those happy accidents and cool ideas rather than having to perform them manually again and again every time I start the song. The MPC One, in theory at least, offers the ability to automate all of those fun live performances so that I basically only have to do it well once, and then I can play it back as often as I like, and fine tune the imperfect parts along the way. That's what I'm hoping to evaluate and if it works well, I'm probably going to end up selling the Elektron boxes and use the MPC One alone. I'll need to learn it fast though, as this is no doubt one complex beast! :D

Regarding using it with my computer DAW (Reason 10), my plan is to try to turn songs into 80% completion completely standalone, and then use the DAW for the final touches and mixing. The ability to export stems is what I'm planning on using, and the track explode looks amazing. Though I have a lot to learn before getting to this point, because if I understand correctly, I'll need to master the Song Mode before this is possible due to it not supporting track explodes when exporting multiple sequences. Workflow workflow workflow.

Thanks again for your input, it's really helpful!

About pad mute and track mute:
Track mutes are saved into the project, while pad mutes not.
So if you want to organize sequences as scenes (same identical tracks but with differents on/off) you have to use track mute.
You can copy the same track as many times you want, so you can make any of these tracks with the same program, and have a different sample triggered on any track.
For example, you have a drum track with kick, hat, snare. You copy the track 3 times. In first track you program the kick, in then next the hat, in the third the snare.
This way you can use track mute (instead of pad mute) to switch them on/off. If you copy the sequence, you can have first sequence with just a kick, the second with all 3 or whatever, and so your sequences are like scenes and are saved with project.

As for slices, you can chop the sample manually or according to bpm or with threshold. But then you can adapt them manually, and the best thing is that you can make a new program with all the slices, each one on a pad, and so you can play them (and record them) in different orders. You can also treat any slice (or pad) indipendently, so for esxample add an effect only to one, a different fx on another one, reverse another one and so on.
I really like this feature, you can just start with a single sample to have a sort of instrument.
If you have samples on your computer, you can put them into Mpc ssd internal disk or sd card and start from them.
As for editing samples, that is the only time I use computer, Mpc is not the best for that.
I prefer to tailor them on computer and import them to Mpc, so they are ready to be used.
Mpc is great to play and experiment and build songs or performances but as a sample editor, any computer editor is still much faster.
I also love Reason and Grain is my favourite one.
There is nothing like that on Mpc.
You can reach some sounds which are close enough, but Grain is another level.
With the last 2.10 update, there are some very good new granulator, stutter, half time, with that you can process some raw synths (from Hype, Odyssey or whatever) to go into Grain territory.
User avatar
By MPC-Tutor Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:44 pm
Straker wrote:Track mutes are saved into the project, while pad mutes not.
.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but pad mutes definitely can be saved, i.e. written as automation events to a sequence. Just select 'W' top right of the pad mute screen, hit play start and your pad mutes are written to your sequence as you play them. You can also insert them manually in list edit.
By Straker Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:56 pm
Yeah sorry, I explained it badly.
Pad mutes are not remembered, if you switch sequence and go back to the first sequence, they don't go back as you saved them on the project.
So if you want to keep the mutes on a sequence, you need to use Track mutes.
I was talking about using sequences as scenes (like ableton scenes).
No way to do it with pad mute.
By Straker Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:57 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:
Straker wrote:Track mutes are saved into the project, while pad mutes not.
.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but pad mutes definitely can be saved, i.e. written as automation events to a sequence. Just select 'W' top right of the pad mute screen, hit play start and your pad mutes are written to your sequence as you play them. You can also insert them manually in list edit.

Yeah sorry, I explained it badly.
Pad mutes are not remembered, if you switch sequence and go back to the first sequence, they don't go back as you saved them on the project.
So if you want to keep the mutes on a sequence, you need to use Track mutes.
I was talking about using sequences as scenes (like ableton scenes).
No way to do it with pad mute.
By HouseWithoutMouse Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:36 pm
I've had the MPC One for a couple of weeks, and I have a lot of the same impressions.

djst wrote:1. This is one complex machine! I had to read the manual again and again and still couldn't figure some things out. For example, in order to autosample, you apparently need to first create a new midi program (not a keygroup program, which would make more sense), or it won't let you set the midi channel to use when triggering notes from the external synth. YouTube helped me figure this out.


The manual says: (italics mine)
The Track name and Program name fields show the target track and program that will be sampled. This will be automatically selected as the active track and program when Auto Sampler is opened.


The problem is, that's the only possible way to specify the track and program. Of course it's good to specify some default values from the active track, but why not allow changing the parameters in the actual function? Either they didn't have enough developer time available to add the needed user-interface input fields, or they didn't care, or both. Anyway, having to select a track and program in a different place, the main view, is one of the quirks of the MPC. That particular quirk has side-effets like record-arming the track, when you're not trying to RECORD into the track, you're trying to PLAY the track, and record from somewhere else. Small thing, but having small things like that littered all over the place adds up.

One annoying thing is, getting unnecessary programs by invoking a function either accidentally, or with the wrong parameters so you're not happy with it. How do you delete an unwanted Program? You select that Program for a Track and press Edit, so you can press DELETE. So I guess everybody has one extra Dummy Track just for this purpose? To have a track whose purpose is to just select programs.

By the way, you can even try to auto sample from an Audio Track! Everything looks legit, it even shows the total recording time in seconds, but when you press DO IT, it does the same thing as CANCEL. I'd still hope you could auto record from any audio, with a device that's supposedly made for sampling and can even detect the key of a sample. Just take any audio as input, chop it up automatically, sort the pieces according to RMS volume and assign it to keys and velocity layers. Shouldn't be too hard for a device that's made for sampling, in the year 2021.

Even what the screen says it's doing, isn't what it's doing. I tried to auto-sample from a Plugin Program, and a Keygroup Program, but select Input 1,2 as the RECORD FROM input, and then play the notes on a guitar and make a guitar patch that way. DOES NOT WORK. It always records from the Program's output, regardless of what it says in the RECORD FROM selection.

2. Saving a project takes ages if you have a few autosampled keygroups loaded. Does it overwrite all samples every time you hit save? It seems like really strange behavior to overwrite sample files if they're unedited since the last save, that will no doubt corrupt the SD card over time.


Can you try and find an exact "repro" i.e. steps to repeat for this. At least V2.10.0 does not seem to re-save auto-sampled wavs, when pressing Shift+Save repeatedly. But when I shut down and answered "SAVE" to the "do you want to save" question, then it did save a lot of stuff, at least once. But then I tried the same again, and it did not do it ... Not sure.

8. Another sampling problem I ran into was when sampling a 132 bpm loop of 8 bars from the Digitakt and then trying to chop it up by bpm. I'm guessing that it picks the master bpm of the MPC (there's no way to specify anything else in the sample editor), and I had that set to 132 bpm too. However, the sample was chopped up with a lot of drifting from the first pad that started right on the beat. Any idea why? You'd think that 132 bpm on a Digitakt is the same thing as 132 bpm on an MPC One... :?


I think it's best to first TRIM the loop so that's an even number of bars. And then use the CHOP thing with BPM.

As a general remark, with all of a couple of weeks of experience, I'd say, look at Youtube videos of how and what people actually do with the MPC. If you thought you could get a new tool to do your music, just like you tried to do with other tools, just in a more efficient way ... that's probably not going to happen. You'll be doing a different kind of music. Chop chop stut ter chop, sam ples trig gered to a beat, chop chop chop. If that's not your thing currently, it has to become your thing. ;)
By Straker Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:47 pm
By the way, the Akai manual sucks.
You can buy the Mpc Bible from this forum, I never had it but I read that everyone is happy with it and I watched some tutorials of the author on YouTube and they are very good, he is good to explain and he has a great knowledge of these new Mpc line.
By djst Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:14 am
HouseWithoutMouse wrote:I've had the MPC One for a couple of weeks, and I have a lot of the same impressions.


Yeah, the interface is a bit inconsistent and hastily put together at times, as if it was developed by a large group of fairly independent developers and product designers. I guess they need more time.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:Can you try and find an exact "repro" i.e. steps to repeat for this. At least V2.10.0 does not seem to re-save auto-sampled wavs, when pressing Shift+Save repeatedly. But when I shut down and answered "SAVE" to the "do you want to save" question, then it did save a lot of stuff, at least once. But then I tried the same again, and it did not do it ... Not sure.


I think you're right! After upgrading, the save feature is definitely faster. Yay!

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:
I think it's best to first TRIM the loop so that's an even number of bars. And then use the CHOP thing with BPM


Aha, this may indeed be the culprit! The sample is a bit longer than 8 bars. I assumed that it would automatically chop it up based on the chosen bpm, but maybe it's just dividing the full sample into the number of bars and steps chosen? I'll try. Though, that is a bit lazy, they should make it dead simple to chop up beats like this.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:
As a general remark, with all of a couple of weeks of experience, I'd say, look at Youtube videos of how and what people actually do with the MPC. If you thought you could get a new tool to do your music, just like you tried to do with other tools, just in a more efficient way ... that's probably not going to happen. You'll be doing a different kind of music. Chop chop stut ter chop, sam ples trig gered to a beat, chop chop chop. If that's not your thing currently, it has to become your thing. ;)

Absolutely, this is great advice and it's too easy to compare with the workflow you're used to and know how to do well and fast. Indeed, I'm interested in hardware because of the way it pushes me into new creative territory. With the Digitone, that was nearly instantaneous due to the conditional trigs and the excellent arp. With the MPC, I definitely need more time to get into the groove. :idea:

Thanks for your input!
User avatar
By Neurone Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:39 am
I've had mine since day one, not used a loop or chopped a sample yet.
Use it how you want to use it.
By HouseWithoutMouse Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:52 pm
Neurone wrote:I've had mine since day one, not used a loop or chopped a sample yet.
Use it how you want to use it.


I didn't mean that sample chopping is literally the only thing that can be done easily, but it's one of the essential things that come naturally with the MPC . There must be other things as well, though I can't list many. Some people use the new MPCs for sequencing outboard synths. What kind of music do you do with the MPC?
User avatar
By Neurone Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:29 pm
HouseWithoutMouse wrote:What kind of music do you do with the MPC?


Electronic, sometimes pop-like, sometimes ambient, sometimes krautrock-ish.
It varies.
Just starting a project with a friend (female vocalist) doing something akin to Gus-Gus.
I'll be using the MPC from beginning to end for that.