Insights for mixing on an MPC?

Hi there! What's the best mixing tutorial with best practices around mixing inside the MPC One? As I'm new to the machine I'm still trying to learn the workflow.

My goal is to do final mixing outside of the MPC on my DAW, but I'd like to get closer to a final mix without resorting to the DAW. I'd love to hear from the experts on how you tend to approach the task.

Some specific questions:

* What are the ideal per-channel levels to avoid soft clipping? Does it matter if individual channels go above 0 dB on the channel strip or does it have enough headroom within the software to only clip the output when it reaches the master 1/2 outs? It seems like when using the templates to create a new song, all channels default to 0 dB but I find they the song feels loud when playing it back and, I can't tell if I'm making this up, but I kind of think I'm hearing some distortion at places as a result of the overall internal loudness, so I'm turning down ALL channels a little to allow more headroom. I know this kind of practice is meaningless on something like Reason 11 where the internal headroom is 128 bit, but I haven't seen any specs for the internal headroom of the MPC. Does anyone know?
* If I observe the main output 1/2 channel level, it appears it's just touching 0 dB all the time. Is there some internal limiter active that I'm not aware of? The master inserts list is empty.
* On the computer DAW, my process is usually to create parallel channels and manage effects like reverb and delay as inserts on them for maximum control. I can then shape the EQ and do sidechaining etc on them independently of the main/dry channel audio. On the MPC, it looks like parallel mixer channels isn't possible. What's the best approach to sculpt the wet signal? Do people primarily use send fx for this, and if so, is there any way/hack to get more than 4 of them? Or are there good insert fx types that let you sculpt it right on the insert instead?
* Again, my goal with the above is to get to 90% of a decent mix while still working within the MPC so I can get close to the real deal while the song develops. Before finalizing the mix in the DAW, my thought is to maybe disable any reverb/delay insert effects per track/program and recreate then from scratch from within Reason. Though, if there are methods to get to 99% there without resorting to rebuilding things in the DAW, I'd prefer a faster workflow by keeping the original fx.
* Related, are the MPC One's built-in effects good sounding? The obvious answer is that I should listen and determine for myself, but I'm curious to hear from the experts here which effects you think are actually great/pro sounding and which you recommend any semi-serious mixing person should downright avoid.

Big thanks in advance for your insights!

For many tips & tricks with levels, chains, ready-made mixed/mastered template tracks and into the point advice check out my Mastering template and it’s manual..It’s an ongoing project that’s constantly updating
https://www.yorgosarabatzis.space/store
Cheers!

Yorgos Arabatzis wrote:For many tips & tricks with levels, chains, ready-made mixed/mastered template tracks and into the point advice check out my Mastering template and it’s manual..It’s an ongoing project that’s constantly updating

Thanks, but I'm looking for tips and advice on best practices. That website seems 100% focused on selling products with no manual to be found anywhere.

djst wrote:Hi there! What's the best mixing tutorial with best practices around mixing inside the MPC One? As I'm new to the machine I'm still trying to learn the workflow.

My goal is to do final mixing outside of the MPC on my DAW, but I'd like to get closer to a final mix without resorting to the DAW. I'd love to hear from the experts on how you tend to approach the task.

Some specific questions:

* What are the ideal per-channel levels to avoid soft clipping? Does it matter if individual channels go above 0 dB on the channel strip or does it have enough headroom within the software to only clip the output when it reaches the master 1/2 outs? It seems like when using the templates to create a new song, all channels default to 0 dB but I find they the song feels loud when playing it back and, I can't tell if I'm making this up, but I kind of think I'm hearing some distortion at places as a result of the overall internal loudness, so I'm turning down ALL channels a little to allow more headroom. I know this kind of practice is meaningless on something like Reason 11 where the internal headroom is 128 bit, but I haven't seen any specs for the internal headroom of the MPC. Does anyone know?
* If I observe the main output 1/2 channel level, it appears it's just touching 0 dB all the time. Is there some internal limiter active that I'm not aware of? The master inserts list is empty.
* On the computer DAW, my process is usually to create parallel channels and manage effects like reverb and delay as inserts on them for maximum control. I can then shape the EQ and do sidechaining etc on them independently of the main/dry channel audio. On the MPC, it looks like parallel mixer channels isn't possible. What's the best approach to sculpt the wet signal? Do people primarily use send fx for this, and if so, is there any way/hack to get more than 4 of them? Or are there good insert fx types that let you sculpt it right on the insert instead?
* Again, my goal with the above is to get to 90% of a decent mix while still working within the MPC so I can get close to the real deal while the song develops. Before finalizing the mix in the DAW, my thought is to maybe disable any reverb/delay insert effects per track/program and recreate then from scratch from within Reason. Though, if there are methods to get to 99% there without resorting to rebuilding things in the DAW, I'd prefer a faster workflow by keeping the original fx.
* Related, are the MPC One's built-in effects good sounding? The obvious answer is that I should listen and determine for myself, but I'm curious to hear from the experts here which effects you think are actually great/pro sounding and which you recommend any semi-serious mixing person should downright avoid.

Big thanks in advance for your insights!

Can’t help you but I’m very interested too. And I don’t want to buy a template. I want to learn how to.

Rank31 wrote:Can’t help you but I’m very interested too. And I don’t want to buy a template. I want to learn how to.

Good to know I'm not the only one trying to figure this out!

So far what I'm doing is that I start with the usual mixing on a per-track and per-pad basis to ensure the relative levels sound right in my ears.

I then add the Air Channel Mixer insert per program, where I mainly cut the lower parts (anything below 300 Hz I'm pretty ruthless about besides the bass and kick, but I usually cut even higher up depending on the type of sound/instrument). I typically disable the Limiter and Compressor on the Air Channel Mixer, but sometimes I enable some gentle compression to even out the peaks, especially on sounds with pretty resonant filter envelopes. Then again many synth presets have compression already enabled on them so I don't know how much of a difference my program level compression does here. I'll have to do some critical listening sessions to determine what sounds best.

I haven't tried to use the send fx yet for reverbs and delays but I'll give it a try to see how that changes the sound shaping control of synths. So far I'm using a lot of synth presets with the wet signal already built in, and I'm not familiar enough with the nuances of the various reverb effects to tell if I can just swap them out 1:1 or if e.g. the Hype reverb adds anything to the mix that the standalone reverbs doesn't. Unless I'm able to find a way to shape the sound by at least trimming off the low ends of the reverb tail, I'm probably going to apply reverb in Reason instead, by exporting dry stems.

That's petty much it so far. I don't put anything on the main output inserts yet, I'm figuring I'll do that in the DAW when I'm ready for that step. I suppose that some gentle compression on it might work well but so far I can't say it's feels necessary as the mix is load enough as it is.

The part that I'm still most confused about is how and when the actual master outs 1/2 clip. I mean, the analog outs must clip at some point, but I get no visual clues when I'm getting close to that limit. I miss the obvious cues like a red clip indicator to tell me that the overall mix is too loud. This is what makes me wonder what kind of headroom I need to leave on the individual channels OR the master out to avoid this from happening. Given that I'll be exporting 24 bit stems for the final daw mix, I'm less worried about that phase - this question is strictly about how to manage the mix-in-progress within the MPC itself and when sharing exporting song sketches with friends etc.

seek & ye shall find

https://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php/268/mpc-bible/

https://store.attackmagazine.com/collec ... production

DokBrown wrote:seek & ye shall find

https://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php/268/mpc-bible/

https://store.attackmagazine.com/collec ... production

Wow, so all answers on this topic point to the need to purchase products to learn how to mix on this device? I thought this forum was filled with fellow musicians but it seems more keen on selling stuff.

I realize I chose the wrong title for this thread, maybe that's why people point to the paid stuff. I don't need a tutorial per se, I'm looking for insights from fellow mpc users.

djst wrote:Thanks, but I'm looking for tips and advice on best practices. That website seems 100% focused on selling products with no manual to be found anywhere.

It has exactly what you’re looking for but comes with a cost of writing all that info and spending countless hours for the templates..
Just wanted to give you that option too which is a hands-on focused one take on the new MPC’s rather than a free one that has no consistency..
DokBrown’s options are paid one’s too ^
You can edit your text and ask only the free ones if that’s what you’re looking for..

djst wrote:I realize I chose the wrong title for this thread, maybe that's why people point to the paid stuff. I don't need a tutorial per se, I'm looking for insights from fellow mpc users.

Yes, if you ask for tutorials you're going to get some people recommending paid tutorials, especially as Yorgos has made something 100% tailored for that particular topic.

Anyway, I've edited your thread title to make it clear you are just looking for general advice and tips etc.

djst wrote:

DokBrown wrote:seek & ye shall find

https://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php/268/mpc-bible/

https://store.attackmagazine.com/collec ... production

Wow, so all answers on this topic point to the need to purchase products to learn how to mix on this device? I thought this forum was filled with fellow musicians but it seems more keen on selling stuff.

Man, not to be unkind, but your questons are very long and specific and they require a lot of time to answer.
And it looks like you want to know things fast that for us took months and months to learn.
So you have a manual, you can get the Mpc bible, you have many tutorials from Mpc tutor and Tubedigga, you have a lot of material to speed up your learning curve.
Just play and try and test, that's always the best way.

Straker wrote:So you have a manual, you can get the Mpc bible, you have many tutorials from Mpc tutor and Tubedigga, you have a lot of material to speed up your learning curve.
Just play and try and test, that's always the best way.

I would point out that the MPC Bible covers mixing 'to a point' - it shows you how to use the various mixing options in the MPC with some simple examples. It's not intended as a full mixing resource (that would require a book's worth of additional content) so I actually don't think the MPC Bible would help the OP in this case.

There are not many dedicated mixing resources for MPCs, but perhaps that's because you could probably use any dedicated mixing resource for help, be it one made for Logic, Ableton or whatever, it wouldn't have to be MPC-specific. What makes it MPC-specific is perhaps understanding the limitations of the MPC mixing environment, be it available plugins or limitations of the software environment itself.

Would be interesting to know many people are mixing in standalone MPCs - are they just doing something basic to finish properly later on in a DAW or are they attempting to get something more serious completed purely in the box? TBH I always just assumed it was the basic option.

And to comment the OP's last query, I feel the FX in the MPC are very good quality for a standalone groovebox, I believe many were originally part of the core Pro Tools installation (the Air FX). But as you say, you need to use your own ears and experience to judge whether they are good enough for your needs.

MPC-Tutor wrote:

Straker wrote:So you have a manual, you can get the Mpc bible, you have many tutorials from Mpc tutor and Tubedigga, you have a lot of material to speed up your learning curve.
Just play and try and test, that's always the best way.

I would point out that the MPC Bible covers mixing 'to a point' - it shows you how to use the various mixing options in the MPC with some simple examples. It's not intended as a full mixing resource (that would require a book's worth of additional content) so I actually don't think the MPC Bible would help the OP in this case.

There are not many dedicated mixing resources for MPCs, but perhaps that's because you could probably use any dedicated mixing resource for help, be it one made for Logic, Ableton or whatever, it wouldn't have to be MPC-specific. What makes it MPC-specific is perhaps understanding the limitations of the MPC mixing environment, be it available plugins or limitations of the software environment itself.

Would be interesting to know many people are mixing in standalone MPCs - are they just doing something basic to finish properly later on in a DAW or are they attempting to get something more serious completed purely in the box? TBH I always just assumed it was the basic option.

I mix all inside Mpc Live standalone.
But then my Mpc goes with 3 stereo outs to a mixer, together with more devices.
So at the end I record all to a multitrack and make just a final touch and then the mastering on computer.
What can I say?
As you said, mixing inside Mpc is just the same as mixing inside any multitrack daw, volumes pan inserts sends subgroups and whatever.

About the fx, I really think they are very good.
They definitely come from the Air Protool bundle, I know it because I was working in a studio years ago and I was using that bundle.
They are nothing fancy, they are not chains of fx as many do now, they are basic fx module, each one makes its job perfectly and then they can be chained to create more complex fx.
I love the filter gate, it's one of the best I ever tried, very funny and interesting to use.
Eq and compressors are perfect, reverb is quite good (we cannot have more with this cpu but it makes its job perfectly), delay is good (but also Akai analog one is good), modulations are excellent, filters are ok (I still use Akai ones anyway).
At the end you really have everything you need for a good quality mix.
And even more with new granulator and stutter and half time.

Coming from an SAE Institute all I can say that mixing can‘t be taught in a forum reply. Too many parameters that influence your mix that require a huge amount of learning to listen analytically first.

One of the standards is „The Mixing Engineer‘s Handbook“ by Bobby Owsinski that covers mixing in a huge amount of detail. Putting that together requires a lot of work and careful evaluation and contextual detail. And I wouldn‘t be able to provide a sufficient amount of detail to tell you what a good mix consists of, because it‘s heavily dependant on the source material you are using. And few have the time to provide you with a year-long learning process for free to satisfy quality-wise. That‘s just too much to ask and there‘s a reason why those cost money. Asking to getting that for free is an insult to any serious mixing engineer.

In short, there‘s six parameters to be considered:
1. levels and proper gain staging
2. dynamics
3. stereo field (panning)
4. depth perception (Tiefenstaffelung)
5. room perception / „sound field“ and psychoacoustics (as a conglomerate between all aforementioned)
6. uniqueness

I‘d suggest loading a reference track that comes close to the sound you want to produce and compare. There‘s much to be learned about all these factors, and by doing this you‘ll start to listen and learn by doing.

83dude wrote:Coming from an SAE Institute all I can say that mixing can‘t be taught in a forum reply. Too many parameters that influence your mix that require a huge amount of learning to listen analytically first.

One of the standards is „The Mixing Engineer‘s Handbook“ by Bobby Owsinski that covers mixing in a huge amount of detail. Putting that together requires a lot of work and careful evaluation and contextual detail. And I wouldn‘t be able to provide a sufficient amount of detail to tell you what a good mix consists of, because it‘s heavily dependant on the source material you are using. And few have the time to provide you with a year-long learning process for free to satisfy quality-wise. That‘s just too much to ask and there‘s a reason why those cost money. Asking to getting that for free is an insult to any serious mixing engineer.

In short, there‘s six parameters to be considered:
1. levels and proper gain staging
2. dynamics
3. stereo field (panning)
4. depth perception (Tiefenstaffelung)
5. room perception / „sound field“ and psychoacoustics (as a conglomerate between all aforementioned)
6. uniqueness

I‘d suggest loading a reference track that comes close to the sound you want to produce and compare. There‘s much to be learned about all these factors, and by doing this you‘ll start to listen and learn by doing.

Thank you for the information. Nevertheless, I don’t agree with your words: “insult to any serious mixing engineer”. Way too excessive. We are mostly amateurs on this forum. It’s an hobby. I don’t like the idea of creating a kind of impassable barrier between pro and amateurs. This is absolutely not the idea I have of music and art in general. I don’t feel that I insult the professional soccer players when I explain to my daughter how to kick in a ball.

I started playing music in a punk rock band at 15. We knew two chords. We spent time together, we learnt together but also with friends and after one year we were able to play three chords songs
We learnt again, as amateurs, made lives, enjoyed it, played, learnt, played…
Today, 30 years later, our bassist makes music for movies and won a lot of prices for its soundtracks. He made the choice to live on its music. I didn’t make the same choice. But I like playing with my MPC, recording the four guitar chords I know (today). I learnt with friends, from forums, by discussing with people on internet. This is the way I like to make music and share my passion in a friendly spirit, giving advices to newbies, requiring advices from experts. Music must remain a pleasure and accessible to everybody. Not a class combat.