Let's talk Audio Tracks...

Audio Tracks seem to be one of the most elusive additions to the MPC software, something that certainly sets it apart from legacy MPCs to a large degree. I have, in fact, used them a hell of a lot, especially with mono synths, and especially with CV. It's great to get a patch and something cool going, be able to track it, and move on to another layer. I really like this quick, rudimentary almost Audacity style recording. I like that it tracks with the transport, so you can start from any point, scrobble through the audio, punch in record, its all very useful and it works.
That being said, I think there are some major improvements that could be had. I've thought about this a lot, and while it sort of makes sense upon first use to have Audio Tracks be per sequence and not Project-wide, it also makes naming, mixing, and general organization of these tracks really, really limited. It really sucks, for instance, to want to add something into Audio Track 2 in the chorus section of a song that is different from the verse. Because everything but the AUDIO ITSELF remains the same throughout the plethory of sequences you can have on the MPC, it starts to not make much sense after a while, and recording acoustic instruments, vocals, live playing or whatever, only becomes useful once you've made a whole song, and converted to a sequence (which is in fact my usual workflow on any MPC). Your and everything you do to that track to really blend it into your mix, stays static over the span of what could sometimes be dozens of sequences. I'd like to know how you guys make use of Audio Tracks, like I said I love using it to multitrack mono synths and have them playback immediately. I also use them for live sets to put in playback/backing tracks, however this quickly eats up memory, obviously. But out of all the MPC Live/X/One users that I know, I'm the only one who has even touched Audio Tracks.

What I really, really think could elevate Audio Tracks, would be to at least have the OPTION for Audio Track Programs. The idea would be that you could have a Program of 8 Audio Tracks that you could use on any of your Sequences, and at any time you could switch to a different Audio Track Program, and have another 8 Tracks, complete with different FX, Mix settings, everything. This isn't that crazy considering you can already have as many Audio Tracks as you want within the constraints of the RAM! And on that note, if Akai ever implemented Disk Streaming, it would make a whole lot of sense. You could have Intros, Verses, Choruses, made of Audio Tracks without having to stick to the same settings. You can have a full live set, with different songs built out of actual stems, backed up with Programs, Keygroups, and Plugins. You could have a full hybrid DJ live set with the ability to remix acapellas into your tracks and other fun stuff like that (this ones a reach but it could be done in combination with a DJ mixer quite well). This is all stuff that Disk Streaming would make much more useful.
But If Disk Streaming DOES ever become a thing, how would you guys even use it? Incredibly detailed, sample laden/layered Keygroup Programs? I can see Disk Streaming solving memory issues with this, sure. Long audio samples onto pads? If you go that route you get into the territory of having to listen to an entire song to get to a certain point in the sample, something that drove me crazy when using the Octatrack's One Shots for long samples. But it would work, and currently thats the only workaround to having more than 8 audio tracks inside a Project, with varying settings (aside from using Automation, which doesn't solve insert FX remaining static).

The only other thing I can see that would make the Audio Tracks infinitely more useful, would be extending them from 8 to 16, or possibly 32. Given the class compliant interface addition, this seems like a no brainer and would take the MPC to multitrack heaven.

So...how do you guys use Audio Tracks? Would the ability to have Audio Track Programs be useful? And on the topic of long audio, how would you guys use Disk Streaming if ever implemented?

While I will sometimes use audio tracks, I find it typically much faster and useful to take those samples and load them into a drum kit and then just trigger them when I want to play. I guess I kind of use the audio track to track external stems and record them in, and then take those stems into sample edit to chop, or do other things with them.

I hear you though, would be nice to have a bit more functionality there, and in clip mode.

Audio tracks were a song-wide thing in the MPC5000, so you didn't have to convert to a sequence, they would just sit there in song mode. Basically Akai really want you converting songs to sequences as it makes things like audio tracks, stem exports and mixing much easier. Unfortunately song mode conversion is very buggy, with stray mutes being added, inability to handle different sequence tempos etc. It's also 'destructive' to a point, it would be better IMO if the resulting converted sequence could still be linked to the original sequences, letting you edit those sequences and automatically update the relevant parts of the converted song. Plus having proper a time marking system for converted sequences so you can jump around easily, as the current 'locate' system is very primitive.

The whole thing needs a rethink. Ultimately audio tracks were the biggest feature request during the 1.x days, just like disk streaming is for 2.x. So in the rush for a big 2.0 update I don't believe Akai spent enough time thinking about the actual implementation of audio tracks and the whole related building blocks, including the way many features now rely on the clunky song 2 seq conversion. I do wonder how many actual MPC users make up the development team.

I'm repeating myself from older posts, but if just 1 person at Akai sat down and tried to make music on an Ensoniq ASR I think they'd realize where the MPC falls flat in comparison to a device 30 years older with a minuscule fraction of the memory. Even a singular "song track" with midi/audio that runs independently from sequences would be enough to fill the gaps.

What AKAI needs to do is to make the Song mode "irrelevant".

Give sequences true markers, like in Cubase or Logic, allow easily looping between markers on the fly, and moving from a marker to another in sync, allow naming markers and assigning pads to marker locations. That's what AKAI needs to do. There is no need to create a new mode or to even rework the sequencer from scratch. That way 1 sequence == 1 song.

But i'd say right now, it's more urgent to correct ALL THE BUGS than add any sort of functionality.

^ i don't know what the **** that is.... but it's sounding like the MV... please don't. I don't want that shit in the mpc environment.

mr_debauch wrote:^ i don't know what the **** that is.... but it's sounding like the MV... please don't. I don't want that **** in the mpc environment.

+1
well the so called "arranger" on the Force (just a linear sequencer) might be better choice for others
I'm 100% sure , if it ever comes on the MPCs , it will not replace current workflow

mr_debauch wrote:^ i don't know what the **** that is.... but it's sounding like the MV... please don't. I don't want that shit in the mpc environment.

I mean, that's exactly how Cubase, Logic, Ableton Live and Protools work. the MPC already has a marker system if you didn't know that, it's just limited. Don't use it if you don't like it.

ancaja123 wrote:Audio Tracks seem to be one of the most elusive additions to the MPC software, something that certainly sets it apart from legacy MPCs to a large degree. I have, in fact, used them a hell of a lot, especially with mono synths, and especially with CV. It's great to get a patch and something cool going, be able to track it, and move on to another layer. I really like this quick, rudimentary almost Audacity style recording. I like that it tracks with the transport, so you can start from any point, scrobble through the audio, punch in record, its all very useful and it works.
That being said, I think there are some major improvements that could be had. I've thought about this a lot, and while it sort of makes sense upon first use to have Audio Tracks be per sequence and not Project-wide, it also makes naming, mixing, and general organization of these tracks really, really limited. It really sucks, for instance, to want to add something into Audio Track 2 in the chorus section of a song that is different from the verse. Because everything but the AUDIO ITSELF remains the same throughout the plethory of sequences you can have on the MPC, it starts to not make much sense after a while, and recording acoustic instruments, vocals, live playing or whatever, only becomes useful once you've made a whole song, and converted to a sequence (which is in fact my usual workflow on any MPC). Your and everything you do to that track to really blend it into your mix, stays static over the span of what could sometimes be dozens of sequences. I'd like to know how you guys make use of Audio Tracks, like I said I love using it to multitrack mono synths and have them playback immediately. I also use them for live sets to put in playback/backing tracks, however this quickly eats up memory, obviously. But out of all the MPC Live/X/One users that I know, I'm the only one who has even touched Audio Tracks.

What I really, really think could elevate Audio Tracks, would be to at least have the OPTION for Audio Track Programs. The idea would be that you could have a Program of 8 Audio Tracks that you could use on any of your Sequences, and at any time you could switch to a different Audio Track Program, and have another 8 Tracks, complete with different FX, Mix settings, everything. This isn't that crazy considering you can already have as many Audio Tracks as you want within the constraints of the RAM! And on that note, if Akai ever implemented Disk Streaming, it would make a whole lot of sense. You could have Intros, Verses, Choruses, made of Audio Tracks without having to stick to the same settings. You can have a full live set, with different songs built out of actual stems, backed up with Programs, Keygroups, and Plugins. You could have a full hybrid DJ live set with the ability to remix acapellas into your tracks and other fun stuff like that (this ones a reach but it could be done in combination with a DJ mixer quite well). This is all stuff that Disk Streaming would make much more useful.
But If Disk Streaming DOES ever become a thing, how would you guys even use it? Incredibly detailed, sample laden/layered Keygroup Programs? I can see Disk Streaming solving memory issues with this, sure. Long audio samples onto pads? If you go that route you get into the territory of having to listen to an entire song to get to a certain point in the sample, something that drove me crazy when using the Octatrack's One Shots for long samples. But it would work, and currently thats the only workaround to having more than 8 audio tracks inside a Project, with varying settings (aside from using Automation, which doesn't solve insert FX remaining static).

The only other thing I can see that would make the Audio Tracks infinitely more useful, would be extending them from 8 to 16, or possibly 32. Given the class compliant interface addition, this seems like a no brainer and would take the MPC to multitrack heaven.

So...how do you guys use Audio Tracks? Would the ability to have Audio Track Programs be useful? And on the topic of long audio, how would you guys use Disk Streaming if ever implemented?

I would just put audio tracks on main page as an option between drum tracks, keygroups, plugins and so on.
I find that having to switch all the time between midi and audio is very uncomfortable.
Same for looper.
Why not put it as a mode next to the others on main page?
This way we would also use inserts and sends on looper.

think audio tracks will work better when the arranger view is added

NearTao wrote:While I will sometimes use audio tracks, I find it typically much faster and useful to take those samples and load them into a drum kit and then just trigger them when I want to play. I guess I kind of use the audio track to track external stems and record them in, and then take those stems into sample edit to chop, or do other things with them.

I hear you though, would be nice to have a bit more functionality there, and in clip mode.

I’m with NT.
In general it easier to just run audio thru a drum or clip program.
The PAD mixer is very powerful.

I tend to just use audio tracks for recording external drums/synths. I add some basic reverb or compression & dump them into a clip program where I do the real mixing.
I think we all agree that audio tracks do not work the way we want them to but it is nice to have the option. I only hope they make the USB CLASS COMPLIANT AUDIO INTERFACE smooth & that I can record 4-6 tracks simultaneously. I honestly think the simplest solution is for AKAI to make an interface that is MPC PLUGnPLAY.

An akai audio interface with some sliders would be sweet. See my post

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=211941&hilit=akai+interface+mpc+ez

MPC-Tutor wrote:Audio tracks were a song-wide thing in the MPC5000, so you didn't have to convert to a sequence, they would just sit there in song mode. Basically Akai really want you converting songs to sequences as it makes things like audio tracks, stem exports and mixing much easier. Unfortunately song mode conversion is very buggy, with stray mutes being added, inability to handle different sequence tempos etc. It's also 'destructive' to a point, it would be better IMO if the resulting converted sequence could still be linked to the original sequences, letting you edit those sequences and automatically update the relevant parts of the converted song. Plus having proper a time marking system for converted sequences so you can jump around easily, as the current 'locate' system is very primitive.

The whole thing needs a rethink. Ultimately audio tracks were the biggest feature request during the 1.x days, just like disk streaming is for 2.x. So in the rush for a big 2.0 update I don't believe Akai spent enough time thinking about the actual implementation of audio tracks and the whole related building blocks, including the way many features now rely on the clunky song 2 seq conversion. I do wonder how many actual MPC users make up the development team.

Didn't know Audio Tracks were a thing on previous MPCs! And you are correct, Song2Seq workflow is clunky, as much as I'm used to it, it does seem hard to imagine why it can't be updated in a big way. Even coming from someone whose favorite method of songwriting is making full tracks on the MPC60. Thanks for the input.

Straker wrote:I would just put audio tracks on main page as an option between drum tracks, keygroups, plugins and so on.
I find that having to switch all the time between midi and audio is very uncomfortable.
Same for looper.
Why not put it as a mode next to the others on main page?
This way we would also use inserts and sends on looper.

Honestly, this is so on the money...f*** Audio Track Programs or whatever I was thinking. I think this is exactly what I meant. I realized I find it extremely annoying that you can't mute AT's in Track Mute, or the Channel Mixer without having to switch it to AT's at the top, I want them to be treated like regular tracks. This is reallllly what they need to do IMO.

As far as a proper Arranger, I read that the Force arranger can't be implemented because the MPCs don't go by a 1x1 track structure, makes sense but at the same time, if it were done strictly on a Sequence (imagining a Song2Seq arranged in a DAW arranger sense) it doesn't seam impossible. It's not something I care about though. I will be tempted to jump ship if they break the general MPC track workflow.

This all makes me think a lot. I really enjoy the AT's at this point (tho I haven't used the looper much), it's really fun to instantly record something, have it play back, and add and mix on top of it. And I rely them for live performance heavily for playback of drum stems. Currently imagining an update where Audio Tracks are just another choice between Programs, Keygroups, Plugins etc...

ancaja123 wrote:

MPC-Tutor wrote:Audio tracks were a song-wide thing in the MPC5000, so you didn't have to convert to a sequence, they would just sit there in song mode. Basically Akai really want you converting songs to sequences as it makes things like audio tracks, stem exports and mixing much easier. Unfortunately song mode conversion is very buggy, with stray mutes being added, inability to handle different sequence tempos etc. It's also 'destructive' to a point, it would be better IMO if the resulting converted sequence could still be linked to the original sequences, letting you edit those sequences and automatically update the relevant parts of the converted song. Plus having proper a time marking system for converted sequences so you can jump around easily, as the current 'locate' system is very primitive.

The whole thing needs a rethink. Ultimately audio tracks were the biggest feature request during the 1.x days, just like disk streaming is for 2.x. So in the rush for a big 2.0 update I don't believe Akai spent enough time thinking about the actual implementation of audio tracks and the whole related building blocks, including the way many features now rely on the clunky song 2 seq conversion. I do wonder how many actual MPC users make up the development team.

Didn't know Audio Tracks were a thing on previous MPCs! And you are correct, Song2Seq workflow is clunky, as much as I'm used to it, it does seem hard to imagine why it can't be updated in a big way. Even coming from someone whose favorite method of songwriting is making full tracks on the MPC60. Thanks for the input.

Straker wrote:I would just put audio tracks on main page as an option between drum tracks, keygroups, plugins and so on.
I find that having to switch all the time between midi and audio is very uncomfortable.
Same for looper.
Why not put it as a mode next to the others on main page?
This way we would also use inserts and sends on looper.

Honestly, this is so on the money...f*** Audio Track Programs or whatever I was thinking. I think this is exactly what I meant. I realized I find it extremely annoying that you can't mute AT's in Track Mute, or the Channel Mixer without having to switch it to AT's at the top, I want them to be treated like regular tracks. This is reallllly what they need to do IMO.

As far as a proper Arranger, I read that the Force arranger can't be implemented because the MPCs don't go by a 1x1 track structure, makes sense but at the same time, if it were done strictly on a Sequence (imagining a Song2Seq arranged in a DAW arranger sense) it doesn't seam impossible. It's not something I care about though. I will be tempted to jump ship if they break the general MPC track workflow.

This all makes me think a lot. I really enjoy the AT's at this point (tho I haven't used the looper much), it's really fun to instantly record something, have it play back, and add and mix on top of it. And I rely them for live performance heavily for playback of drum stems. Currently imagining an update where Audio Tracks are just another choice between Programs, Keygroups, Plugins etc...

Yeah I also think that putting audio tracks and looper as regular tracks among the others would be the most natural and obvious way.
I really don't understand why they choose to separate them from track workflow.
The lack of track mute for audio tracks doesn't make any sense at all.
The lack of regular sends and insert fx on looper doesn't make any sense at all.
Hopefully Akai works on that.

The way I use audio tracks is in our live performance.

During our live performance, mostly in song mode but sometimes as a sequence, I run a mic through an interface and into my MPC 1. From here I have automated vocal harmonies for the singer that that turn on and off or change during the sequence / song performance. This has worked very well thus far but there does seem to be some limitation in the automation. Not sure if this is due to using the Audio track as a live input or limitations of automation in general but I'm still toying around with some more complex automated layered vocal effects (which I'll post in another thread to find a solution).

I don't think I would use an audio track on its own in a sequence or anything as that hasn't really come up. At that point I probably would just sample.

I hope they add some fx to the audio tracks like some op1 virtual tape mode where u can do tape fx direct on the audio track like rewinds and pauses etc.