How to record tack mutes over a sequence with short tracks?

I start with a new project and make a 12 bar sequence containing two tracks of TubeSynth of 1 bar each so they repeat over 12 bars.

I go to the MUTE page and record some mute changes in real time over that twelve bar sequence.

The problem is that I don't get on playback the sequence of mutes as I recorded them.

The mutes are played back as events looping over the 1 bar and repeated as a one bar event loop over the 12 bars.

Is there a way to set this up so that I have a recording of the loop mutes as I played them over the 12 bar sequence?

(I'm using 2.10.01 on Live II)

Can you post a screenshot of your MAIN page? I suspect you've just got a 1 bar sequence, and not a 12 bar sequence.

I took a pic but can't see a way to attach it. I guess I need a pic hosting service.

But I definitely have SEQUENCE / BARS = 12 on the MAIN page.

I also have START = 1 , END = 12 with loop enabled.

Have you tried this simple test and does it work as expected for you?

I work in many different sequence lengths (usually 4/8/16/32/64/...) and have had track mute work properly for me. Maybe take a look in List View and see if you see anything weird?

I might try 12 just to see if it does anything strange.

I suggest copying the One Bar Tubesynth Event, Twelve Times. Then you can have more control over the Mutes of that Track.

I was never able to get the track mutes to stick with sequence looping tracks. Pretty sure you'll have to draw/record every event on the tracks for the entire sequence and then record the mutes.

NearTao wrote:I work in many different sequence lengths (usually 4/8/16/32/64/...) and have had track mute work properly for me.

Thanks, but it's not sequence length I'm playing with here.
The problem I'm having is with a single sequence containing shorter MIDI tracks than the sequence which loop throughout the sequence, say to make a polyrhythm of one track of three bars and another of four bars.

That's a good hint on the LIST VIEW I can now see that the MUTES are only being recorded over the first bar and not through the whole sequence.

40Beatz wrote:I suggest copying the One Bar Tubesynth Event, Twelve Times. Then you can have more control over the Mutes of that Track.

The problem with this is that it sets my rhythmic sequence in concrete. 12 bars was just an example, the sequence could be much longer. But, you may be right and this is the only way to work.

Linen Associate wrote:I was never able to get the track mutes to stick with sequence looping tracks. Pretty sure you'll have to draw/record every event on the tracks for the entire sequence and then record the mutes.

That's the conclusion I'm being drawn to but I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid.

I'm wondering if this is actually a bug.

If it worked as expected it would be a really good fun way to jam live ... nudging and transposing MIDI events on those short tracks and even varying the length of each track as they looped, then recording the track mutes which you could let play for a while as you played a melody. Then go back and do some quick changes and record new mutes without stopping. And repeat.

I guess I'm not envisioning what you're actually doing, making it hard to give any advice. Another thought I have is wondering if you need to change track mute behavior in your preferences.

So MAIN -> House -> Gear -> Sequencer -> Play Track Mute and Solo Events

It might be worth a try at least...

SuthernSound wrote:

Linen Associate wrote:I was never able to get the track mutes to stick with sequence looping tracks. Pretty sure you'll have to draw/record every event on the tracks for the entire sequence and then record the mutes.

That's the conclusion I'm being drawn to but I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid.

I'm wondering if this is actually a bug.

If it worked as expected it would be a really good fun way to jam live ... nudging and transposing MIDI events on those short tracks and even varying the length of each track as they looped, then recording the track mutes which you could let play for a while as you played a melody. Then go back and do some quick changes and record new mutes without stopping. And repeat.

For shits and grins I tried track mutes again (using over dub) and I was able to get the mutes to stick in both hardware and software modes now when the track looped within a longer sequence. I know for sure this wasn't the case when I've attempted it a few times in the past. I wonder if it is indeed a bug we were/are experiencing or we were just doing it wrong to begin with.

For **** and grins I tried track mutes again (using over dub) and I was able to get the mutes to stick in both hardware and software modes now when the track looped within a longer sequence. I know for sure this wasn't the case when I've attempted it a few times in the past.

Did you use PLUGIN tracks? I went back and played with the simple test project I described in the OP and tried changing a couple of things but I still see the problem.

Can you get this to work in a reproducible way starting from a blank project on stand alone hardware using 2.10.1?

SuthernSound wrote:

For **** and grins I tried track mutes again (using over dub) and I was able to get the mutes to stick in both hardware and software modes now when the track looped within a longer sequence. I know for sure this wasn't the case when I've attempted it a few times in the past.

Did you use PLUGIN tracks? I went back and played with the simple test project I described in the OP and tried changing a couple of things but I still see the problem.

Can you get this to work in a reproducible way starting from a blank project on stand alone hardware using 2.10.1?

I just tried again, using both plugin & MIDI tracks, an empty project & existing ones, and mutes worked in both standalone and software for all. The only thing that turned off the mutes was SOLO mode on a track.

I think this is by design, just the way it works: Muting / unmuting a track is an event that is recorded to the track itself (you can verify this in the list view). So as a short track repeats, so does the muting / unmuting. So it is not possible to have a one bar drum loop and mute / unmute it over the course of a longer sequence.

You unfortunately have to take the bitter pill of copying the events to get a track of the desired length to be able to mute / unmute it at any time in the sequence.

It may however be possible to route the tracks output by the mixer into a submix or something, and automate the mute that one. As a particular submix is not tied to certain track, the automation of that must be stored elsewhere - so it may work.