More features might as well use a DAW

Does anyone else ever start to feel like the more features Akai adds (usb audio interface support, etc), the less reason/excuse you have for using an MPC? My main reason now for using an MPC is the portability, but even that starts to go away if you are going to be traveling and carrying a computer along with the MPC..then the MPC becomes just another heavy item to carry.

I've uninstalled my DAW after 30 years, I'm solely using the MPC now.
Is it all smooth sailing, no, is it more productive, yes.
Reasons ?
From the early 80's it was hardware sequencers and when midi dropped some primitive software on 8-bit computers.
There was no mouse.
Simply, hardware sequencers reward your productivity by promoting your response to create more music straight away.
Not to grab the mouse and endlessly doodle with note/controller/automation data, no getting lost in endless VST fiddling.
With the MPC you get some notes/samples going, then...do some more, pretty soon you have something like a finished structure, then you can go and insert/add some effects, maybe edit some automation.
However, the mouse and hours and hours and hours of endless fiddling, is not king.

For example, the Yamaha RM1x was an incredible hardware sequencer (and I've had a LOT of them), it's sounds were a bit lacklustre, even for the time (AWM2), but it's workflow just meant you made music, music, music. Track after track.
I treat my MPC like that.
I spend more time putting notes in than fiddling with them with a mouse.

Yep, the added functionality is bringing it closer to a DAW, but the workflow is not the same.
It's subtle, but has massive ramifications for your creativity.

Just my dollars worth.

Neurone wrote:I've uninstalled my DAW after 30 years, I'm solely using the MPC now.
Is it all smooth sailing, no, is it more productive, yes.
Reasons ?
From the early 80's it was hardware sequencers and when midi dropped some primitive software on 8-bit computers.
There was no mouse.
Simply, hardware sequencers reward your productivity by promoting your response to create more music straight away.
Not to grab the mouse and endlessly doodle with note/controller/automation data, no getting lost in endless VST fiddling.
With the MPC you get some notes/samples going, then...do some more, pretty soon you have something like a finished structure, then you can go and insert/add some effects, maybe edit some automation.
However, the mouse and hours and hours and hours of endless fiddling, is not king.

For example, the Yamaha RM1x was an incredible hardware sequencer (and I've had a LOT of them), it's sounds were a bit lacklustre, even for the time (AWM2), but it's workflow just meant you made music, music, music. Track after track.
I treat my MPC like that.
I spend more time putting notes in than fiddling with them with a mouse.

Yep, the added functionality is bringing it closer to a DAW, but the workflow is not the same.
It's subtle, but has massive ramifications for your creativity.

Just my dollars worth.

In the early 2000s when I started producing music, most Hip-Hop producers were using Workstatikn Keyboards and MPCs, so that's what I'm used to (Roland Fantom X6 was how I made music until I switched to Logic and Ableton later. I try to only use the DAW for the last 20-30% of the workflow that the MPC hasn't quite got yet (final mix downs with proper gain Staging and Mastering with Ozone I agree that I loathe using the outer and keyboard for pointing and clicking and drop down menus and drawing automation, which is why I love the MPC for ALL styles of music and I prefer it as my most inspirational method of music production. I waste so much time in DAWs dealing with crashes, compatibility and lack of organic, hands on integration. MPC>DAW 4 life.

Neurone wrote:I've uninstalled my DAW after 30 years, I'm solely using the MPC now.
Is it all smooth sailing, no, is it more productive, yes.
Reasons ?
From the early 80's it was hardware sequencers and when midi dropped some primitive software on 8-bit computers.
There was no mouse.
Simply, hardware sequencers reward your productivity by promoting your response to create more music straight away.
Not to grab the mouse and endlessly doodle with note/controller/automation data, no getting lost in endless VST fiddling.
With the MPC you get some notes/samples going, then...do some more, pretty soon you have something like a finished structure, then you can go and insert/add some effects, maybe edit some automation.
However, the mouse and hours and hours and hours of endless fiddling, is not king.

For example, the Yamaha RM1x was an incredible hardware sequencer (and I've had a LOT of them), it's sounds were a bit lacklustre, even for the time (AWM2), but it's workflow just meant you made music, music, music. Track after track.
I treat my MPC like that.
I spend more time putting notes in than fiddling with them with a mouse.

Yep, the added functionality is bringing it closer to a DAW, but the workflow is not the same.
It's subtle, but has massive ramifications for your creativity.

Just my dollars worth.

I mean I have every MPC since the MPC60ii (except the 2500 and 1000), Cirklons, I had the Engine, I use endless sequencers on things like the TB-303, have a few euro rack sequencers, Soma Ornament, elektron sequencers, even the big ass moog compl B sequencer, but all of these seem to have more of a reason to use them. The old MPCs have different sound, timing feels, etc. The things like TB303, well yea its a 303, Elektron has different things that you can’t do in a DAW (yet) plus the fact that the synth sequencers are tied to the synths kind of makes more of a reason to use them.

The new MPCs on the other hand…how can you argue that you can’t just use even the MPC DAW and an akai controller? You don’t have to spend hours drawing notes, you would essentially have the same exact workflow. Some would argue that you can even program things in Ableton that would make your workflow for creating songs even faster than on the current MPCs. If you are going to be carrying a computer with you any ways when traveling, what’s the reason for MPC? You are basically looking at a computer screen just smaller on the new MPCs. The only reason i would say is, if you don’t want to have to connect a controller by plugging in the USB cable? But is that really enough reason?


I even find it harder to go from start to finish on a new MPC, because like so many say, you end up bringing to a DAW for the last steps anyway. Also, the VSTs for EQ, mastering, synths, compressors, ect are way better on a computer than on an MPC.

This is all coming from someone that has all of the new MPCs and force, I want to have a reason to use them, but I just don’t. It might be because I have so much other gear that it makes more sense for me to use a DAW with all my patchbays and external gear? Idk. I even find myself trying to buy another audio interface just for the MPC so that way I can run the outputs through outboard gear and then into a DAW, but why? If I am using an audio interface, it’s not like I am getting anything specific to the MPC anyway. I might as well just use MPC DAW, then outputs from the computer to the outboard gear and back.

KaoticShock wrote:

Neurone wrote:I've uninstalled my DAW after 30 years, I'm solely using the MPC now.
Is it all smooth sailing, no, is it more productive, yes.
Reasons ?
From the early 80's it was hardware sequencers and when midi dropped some primitive software on 8-bit computers.
There was no mouse.
Simply, hardware sequencers reward your productivity by promoting your response to create more music straight away.
Not to grab the mouse and endlessly doodle with note/controller/automation data, no getting lost in endless VST fiddling.
With the MPC you get some notes/samples going, then...do some more, pretty soon you have something like a finished structure, then you can go and insert/add some effects, maybe edit some automation.
However, the mouse and hours and hours and hours of endless fiddling, is not king.

For example, the Yamaha RM1x was an incredible hardware sequencer (and I've had a LOT of them), it's sounds were a bit lacklustre, even for the time (AWM2), but it's workflow just meant you made music, music, music. Track after track.
I treat my MPC like that.
I spend more time putting notes in than fiddling with them with a mouse.

Yep, the added functionality is bringing it closer to a DAW, but the workflow is not the same.
It's subtle, but has massive ramifications for your creativity.

Just my dollars worth.

In the early 2000s when I started producing music, most Hip-Hop producers were using Workstatikn Keyboards and MPCs, so that's what I'm used to (Roland Fantom X6 was how I made music until I switched to Logic and Ableton later. I try to only use the DAW for the last 20-30% of the workflow that the MPC hasn't quite got yet (final mix downs with proper gain Staging and Mastering with Ozone I agree that I loathe using the outer and keyboard for pointing and clicking and drop down menus and drawing automation, which is why I love the MPC for ALL styles of music and I prefer it as my most inspirational method of music production. I waste so much time in DAWs dealing with crashes, compatibility and lack of organic, hands on integration. MPC>DAW 4 life.

Same thing i said up there. I use a Mac so i don’t really have any crashes or compatibility issues. So if not taking that into consideration, aren’t you basically just using a mini computer built into a controller?

I've said this before and not got great replies but its true.. If you have the MPC computer software theres no need for the actual MPC unit. A mac or pc with a good sound interface along with an mpd pad would be a better set up than the stand alone unit.

The blessing of the stand alone unit is that it encompasses the input interface, audio interface, midi interface, and a somewhat useful and highly optimised version of the software.

I can't argue with emdogs logic at all, however I hate sitting at a computer. Hate it! I've spend a good portion of my life doing just that and I really wanted a place to just step away from that world. However, my set up is definitely not portable.

Ultros wrote:I've said this before and not got great replies but its true.. If you have the MPC computer software theres no need for the actual MPC unit. A mac or pc with a good sound interface along with an mpd pad would be a better set up than the stand alone unit.

The blessing of the stand alone unit is that it encompasses the input interface, audio interface, midi interface, and a somewhat useful and highly optimised version of the software.

I can't argue with emdogs logic at all, however I hate sitting at a computer. Hate it! I've spend a good portion of my life doing just that and I really wanted a place to just step away from that world. However, my set up is definitely not portable.

Right, so a good argument would be that if you don’t have an audio interface, or a DAW, or a decent computer, then you could get an MPC. So basically the MPC would be a beginners gateway into making music?

Yeah, it's a glorfied controller and combo of all the stuff a new artist would need right in one unit for $699 usd or $999 cad lol.

I gotta give it props for being a really awesome standalone device still, though it doesnt exactly own up to the level of the pc software, but i still feel like the MPC and Force are still the best beat machines money can buy. There's alot of other options but how many of them cram the level of complexity into one box that akai has?

There's other work stations that are decent dont get me wrong but akai is making something pretty great happen on a limited resource device sadly we wont see the full fruit of the project for a few years likely.

Ultros wrote:Yeah, it's a glorfied controller and combo of all the stuff a new artist would need right in one unit for $699 usd or $999 cad lol.

I gotta give it props for being a really awesome standalone device still, though it doesnt exactly own up to the level of the pc software, but i still feel like the MPC and Force are still the best beat machines money can buy. There's alot of other options but how many of them cram the level of complexity into one box that akai has?

There's other work stations that are decent dont get me wrong but akai is making something pretty great happen on a limited resource device sadly we wont see the full fruit of the project for a few years likely.

Yea I agree. If MPC could save to dropbox and I could go from the MPC to the software seamlessly, the MPC would be tremendously useful to me and it would probably help to get me to use the MPC software more.

i had some issues learning the mpc live. i kept feeling like there was two separate systems in the same machine and they didnt quite mesh together. for whatever reason i couldnt shake that feeling and i randomly had the idea to read the manuals from the old mpcs, mpc60, mpc2000/xl and try to work within the limitations of those machines. that actually worked out great and got me really comfortable using the mpc as a mpc and not some hybrid thing. so now when i approach the mpc live its not quite like an integrated system. i see it more like a SUPER MPC that maxed out the core mpc features -- with an in progress DAW being built on top of it. its still a MPC. i dont really look at it as an incomplete product. its a MPC with a touchscreen and akai is adding stuff that benefits the touchscreen but isnt necessarily part of the MPC workflow. it took me a while to realize that.

Ultros wrote:I've said this before and not got great replies but its true.. If you have the MPC computer software theres no need for the actual MPC unit. A mac or pc with a good sound interface along with an mpd pad would be a better set up than the stand alone unit.

The blessing of the stand alone unit is that it encompasses the input interface, audio interface, midi interface, and a somewhat useful and highly optimised version of the software.

I can't argue with emdogs logic at all, however I hate sitting at a computer. Hate it! I've spend a good portion of my life doing just that and I really wanted a place to just step away from that world. However, my set up is definitely not portable.

I also hate sitting at a computer, and I come from actually playing real instruments to make music (Trombone, Piano, Guitar, Bass, Trumpet) so MPC makes WAY more sense as an instrument than a computer. DAWs can definitely do more, but a laptop and a controller won't fit on the tray table of Boeing 737, the MPC Live can.

I say that because I travel often and use the MPC to produce while flying.

Also, the MPC Software as a DAW is not really that comprehensive compared to others (4 FX slots vs unlimited in Ableton and Logic, very limited Built-in devices/FX for example no stock Multi-Band compression, no stock Visual EQ). After using Standalone mode, Controller mode, and producing in a DAW, I will still always prefer the MPC workflow for sample chopping, the feel of the pads, and the immediacy of the Q-links.

I've mapped controllers to Ableton, that's annoying and time consuming, I have an MPD18 that I've used as a controller for the Software, and I've Produced full tracks with Logic and vsts.

After Auto-Sampling many of my plugins, and Transeferring my 300 GB Sample Library to the SSD, I can't see myself ever preferring to click a mouse to make music, it doesn't feel as natural and organic as the MPC, even though the DAW can do more. Same reason some DJs like spinning on Vinyl instead of CDJs, even though DVS setups are more cumbersome.

To me, more features has nothing to do with the reason why I'm using an MPC and not a DAW to make music. It's all about the workflow and ability to jam out a new beat quickly without having to sit in front of the computer.

If anything, more features make it easier to avoid the DAW. For example, I'd love to see the master and sub mix automation coming from the Force to the MPC because that would mean I could record those automations on the MPC instead of having to do it in post.

What the MPC gives to me is an environment where I'm encouraged to make music without distractions. It's a fantastic piece of equipment!

Ultros wrote:I've said this before and not got great replies but its true.. If you have the MPC computer software theres no need for the actual MPC unit. A mac or pc with a good sound interface along with an mpd pad would be a better set up than the stand alone unit.

The blessing of the stand alone unit is that it encompasses the input interface, audio interface, midi interface, and a somewhat useful and highly optimised version of the software.

I couldn't disagree more. I actually evaluated the MPC workflow by trialing the software on my laptop first, and it was such a mediocre experience that I ended up dropping the idea of owning an MPC. At that point, it's just an inferior daw and you can might as well pick a more competent one.

It wasn't until a year later that I finally picked up one and realized that it's night and day compared to the laptop + software combo. The whole thing about the MPC is the hardware workflow. I've never made more music before and I've spent years in a DAW. It has nothing to do with audio interface or midi ports to me. I can understand why it seems like a very comparable workflow in theory - it's the same general software - but in practice, it makes such a big difference to have the ability to step away from the computer and all of its distractions, and to use dedicated hardware buttons to speed up the workflow. After using it for a few weeks, it becomes second nature.

Just my 2 cents.

KaoticShock wrote:

Ultros wrote:I've said this before and not got great replies but its true.. If you have the MPC computer software theres no need for the actual MPC unit. A mac or pc with a good sound interface along with an mpd pad would be a better set up than the stand alone unit.

The blessing of the stand alone unit is that it encompasses the input interface, audio interface, midi interface, and a somewhat useful and highly optimised version of the software.

I can't argue with emdogs logic at all, however I hate sitting at a computer. Hate it! I've spend a good portion of my life doing just that and I really wanted a place to just step away from that world. However, my set up is definitely not portable.

I also hate sitting at a computer, and I come from actually playing real instruments to make music (Trombone, Piano, Guitar, Bass, Trumpet) so MPC makes WAY more sense as an instrument than a computer. DAWs can definitely do more, but a laptop and a controller won't fit on the tray table of Boeing 737, the MPC Live can.

I say that because I travel often and use the MPC to produce while flying.

Also, the MPC Software as a DAW is not really that comprehensive compared to others (4 FX slots vs unlimited in Ableton and Logic, very limited Built-in devices/FX for example no stock Multi-Band compression, no stock Visual EQ). After using Standalone mode, Controller mode, and producing in a DAW, I will still always prefer the MPC workflow for sample chopping, the feel of the pads, and the immediacy of the Q-links.

I've mapped controllers to Ableton, that's annoying and time consuming, I have an MPD18 that I've used as a controller for the Software, and I've Produced full tracks with Logic and vsts.

After Auto-Sampling many of my plugins, and Transeferring my 300 GB Sample Library to the SSD, I can't see myself ever preferring to click a mouse to make music, it doesn't feel as natural and organic as the MPC, even though the DAW can do more. Same reason some DJs like spinning on Vinyl instead of CDJs, even though DVS setups are more cumbersome.

I can't argue with the fitting on a Boeing tray table, but I would argue that you probably have your laptop with you at that point as well anyway, so the slight difference or discomfort of having the pad controller on your lap could far outweigh lugging around an MPC in addition to your lap top, although it does look cool to have an mpc. you could technically also get smaller controllers that support MPE to actually have more control than an MPC, thus making it more like an instrument and more organic feeling than the MPC.

djst wrote:

Ultros wrote:I've said this before and not got great replies but its true.. If you have the MPC computer software theres no need for the actual MPC unit. A mac or pc with a good sound interface along with an mpd pad would be a better set up than the stand alone unit.

The blessing of the stand alone unit is that it encompasses the input interface, audio interface, midi interface, and a somewhat useful and highly optimised version of the software.

I couldn't disagree more. I actually evaluated the MPC workflow by trialing the software on my laptop first, and it was such a mediocre experience that I ended up dropping the idea of owning an MPC. At that point, it's just an inferior daw and you can might as well pick a more competent one.

It wasn't until a year later that I finally picked up one and realized that it's night and day compared to the laptop + software combo. The whole thing about the MPC is the hardware workflow. I've never made more music before and I've spent years in a DAW. It has nothing to do with audio interface or midi ports to me. I can understand why it seems like a very comparable workflow in theory - it's the same general software - but in practice, it makes such a big difference to have the ability to step away from the computer and all of its distractions, and to use dedicated hardware buttons to speed up the workflow. After using it for a few weeks, it becomes second nature.

Just my 2 cents.

I feel you, but I can't help but think that it's just lack of self control and laziness that prevent from mapping out controllers that have MPE and far better control, as well as fighting of distractions on the computer.