MPC X, MPC Live, MPC One & MPC Key 61 Forum: Support and discussion for the MPC X, MPC Live, MPC Live II, MPC One & MPC Key 61; Akai's current generation of standalone MPCs.
By B-Wise Thu May 25, 2023 3:25 am
EnochLight wrote: you're getting a modularly upgradable (and user serviceable) standalone machine. Being able to easily switch out the battery, CPU, RAM, and main SSD is pretty incredible and an industry first for this class of gear.

But can we upgrade the screen :smh: :lol:
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By Menco Thu May 25, 2023 7:48 am
Gotta agree with Koekepan; seems like Ableton tries to tackle to same thing from a different angle.

The MPC software now is more of an afterthought like Tutor pointed out. It’s just there trying to cover a few extra bases and just being able to say: you can run your own plugins inside the MPC environment. Akai tried to port the standalone experience over to the computer like Nintendo did ported over the Legend Of Zelda from NES to Game&Watch.

Ableton is doing the opposite in the same way here. Trying to port over the software into a hardware device which definitely is not their territory and specialty. Live is miles ahead of the MPC Software, the MPC’s are hardware wise miles ahead of Ableton when it comes down to the standalone experience.

So Ableton running into problems with the way Live behaves on Push3 in standalone will be unavoidable and will probably take Ableton years to catch up.
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By hyena Thu May 25, 2023 9:36 am
well, the midi thing first: you have midi ins and outs on push3, only on the small trs minijack cable and only 1 port in 1 port out, which limits to 16 channels i\o, which as a centerpiece of a studio might be steep. BUT, you can expand via usb, add another midi interface, just like we can on mpc\force now. also, pretty sure they will add support for class compliant audio interfaces if not already there. price: i think its a bit high considering that if you want to get REALLY serious, you have to invest in the Suite, so, the $'s pile up quickly. But for someone who already has the Suite, it is decent priced, you can start with the controller and upgrade to standalone in a second moment if needs be... the thing i think is the most interestign is that ,for the first time in history, we have MAX\MSP on a standalone device, of course you cannot create your patches on the push itself (it will be veeery awkward) but you can create your max for live devices on computer and then move your instruments\effects\sequencers\weird sh1t on the machine itself. that was the only thing attracting me to Maschine + : the Reaktor thing, but it came out its pretty half baked, so i decided to skip that. But here we can have full m4l patches with macros and stuff on the standalone itself... in the right hands it can be a really powerful instrument.
i'm on the fence about it: being that is my dayjob to teach Ableton Live (and sound design, and sound theory, and electronic music production) i'll end up having one sooner or later, but i have to be completely honest, i'm an mpc head. i love the 16 pads, i love the song mode vs linear arrangement (masochism?) i love pad mute\track mute stuff... still my favourite workflow is jjos2xl followed by current line mpc and then mpc 4k. but the max for live thing is really an itch i'd probably want to scratch :)
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By kja Thu May 25, 2023 11:09 am
B-Wise wrote:
kja wrote:This will sperate the real mpc heads from those that just jumped on the mpc as the latest greatest beat machine.. a lot of us will want the newest coolest, some of us truly love the mpc and will go nowhere.. I've never been remotely interested in live, I have used mpc's since I was a little one and an going nowhere. I could care less, but it looks really cool.
I wonder if it sounds good for skisky, no disrespect.. just a jab, love the guy he is a beast.


jpeg wrote:er no it wont; those who want the latest and greatest will probably just buy this and keep they mpcs and juggled multiple units.

also why so concerned with the real mpc heads vs those who are just dipping into the mpc recently? as long as the product is good for ur workflow why do u care who else uses it?

the mpcs need not be part of ur pesonal ego or some status symbol its a tool


B-Wise wrote: :oops: :cry: :nod: :lol: That last line was deadly.


kja wrote:No it wasn't, he just assume it is about my ego, when it is not.. I'm just tried of hearing how the modern mpc is not as good as the old ones.. now fools can move on to ragging on this and leave the mpc alone. Why do you think some made up dis would matter to anybody anyway? I have read almost twenty post saying they are moving to this from the mpc so yea... Your right, never gonna happen.


It wasn't a diss more like pointing out his observations & it wasn't really directed at just you, but your ego may have blinded you that & took it personally when Jpeg was speaking in more general terms. Your reply to me only further reinforce the point he was making about MPC ego attachment.

A person without that MPC ego:
- wouldn't bought up their childhood love for the MPC & how no matter what else comes out that they're not going nowhere. This means you have a very high level of brand loyalty.

- wouldn't have even care to make a reply of what I thought was good point that someone else made.

- wouldn't had called users fools & said now they can leave the MPC alone. Which reminds me of that meme, you know the one. This is brand defensive :cry: :x :nod:

- wouldn't had gotten tired/upset over reading just 20 posts on the web & then ask me why I thought his opinion would matter to anybody. So nobody's else's opinion matters but yours. Wow :Sigh:

I stand by what I said about his deadly point, but you can try harder to convince me otherwise. Though I think it's best to move on & follow your own point about nobody opinions matters. :nod:

I have no ego, but if you don't believe me ok then.. I guess I should join mpc gang and get one of their shirts then.
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By EnochLight Thu May 25, 2023 3:00 pm
hyena wrote:... the thing i think is the most interesting is that, for the first time in history, we have MAX\MSP on a standalone device.. but the max for live thing is really an itch i'd probably want to scratch :)



Correct me if I'm wrong, but any Max4Live device on Push 3 will need to have a GUI/UX that be accommodated by its 8 knobs/pages, yes? As for Push 2, does any/all Max4Live device become accessible when you run Live on a computer? Even those not made specifically for the limited display and knobs?

I'm asking because I've never owned a Push.
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By NearTao Thu May 25, 2023 6:20 pm
From what I've read, the "easiest" way to do the m4l to push "conversion" is to dump it into a group and map the 8 knobs... I'm assuming this won't get you access to all of the parameters, but would let you get at some of those m4l patches that haven't been converted over for push without having to do all the coding work to expose it all yourself... but that's just how I understand it without having had a push myself either.
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By hyena Fri May 26, 2023 5:37 pm
well, you can have more than 8 controls, and browse them on the 8 encoders, no need to go the "rack" route, push recognizes every parameter you have on a device. i mean: if you load a standard ableton instrument like operator, push (even push 2 or push 1) will see all of its parameters on multiple pages...
the only thing you have to remember when creating a m4l patch is to use the proper GUI elements, you can't use a flonum or a regular knob, you have to use the max msp objects created for ableton, like live.dial , live.gain and stuff like that. but that's always like that, even if you just want to automate a m4l parameter on the software you have to use those objects. anyway, theres no limit to the amount of parameters Push will see on a device, it only gets messy if you don't organize them well.
if i was to integrate a m4l patch i would go the rack route tho, its easier and can help you make more deep sound design stuff, mapping the same macros across multiple parameters across multiple devices and chains, with independent ranges...
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By mrmarbury Sun May 28, 2023 11:41 am
Since I also use Live sometimes I of course watched all “reviews” that were released on launch day. Problem was all reviews showed exactly the same (we’ll come to that). So I had to get one myself to really see what it is capable of. Especially since my main use case is with my midi devices and no review showed more than the basics. Which is: connecting one device at a time or a max of two.

It’s a well built device with some real weight to it. And it seems they didn’t cover it in the rubber you will stick to in a couple of years. I love the replaceable hardware (like I’ve said already) and wish inMusic would take that route as well. In controller mode things work as expected. Except for the main volume knob which didn’t do anything. Weird. But I was solely interested in standalone mode.

And now I come to the part why all reviews show the same … it’s really all the Push can do in standalone at the moment.

Okay it recognizes midi interfaces but that’s about it. No renaming, no sending of program change or CC messages without using a separate M4L device. Which you either have to find or build. I mean you can build it in the first place which is a bonus. But PC and CC feels like an MVP feature tbh.
But this is also not as easy as it should be. If your m4l device is not mapped for a push, then you don’t have any controls. Grouping the device so you can assign macros is also not that simple since the group does not contain the devices itself but only absolute path references to the grouped devices. And that paths stay the same when you copy the group to the Push. So the Push won’t find your devices. What works better is to edit the device and add a “live.banks” object and map the controls to banks. That works really well. But you have to edit the m4l device itself and if there is a new version of that device you have to do that again. I also have pre-made groups and device configs (midi channel, audio in, etc) for all of my external gear. So I copied those devices and groups over to the Push. Didn’t work at all. And why would it since audio/midi config is not shared across Live and the Push standalone.

What’s also not working yet is naming anything. You can enter the password for your wifi. But this it. You cannot name clips, tracks, projects, anything. Projects have auto naming and everything else gets the name of the device or patch. So if you have a midi interface attached where every channel is called “awesome midi interface 1”, “awesome midi interface 2”, aso, then your clips will all be named “awesome mid” (because there’s not enough room to show the full name) and you have to remember where you put things.

Switching between Standalone and Controller mode is kinda slow. I didn’t time it but it takes a while. Like a minute? So if you need to switch a couple of times because you debug a m4l device or just need to copy things over you might be there for a while.

I am not able to use my Blofeld with it because the Push creates some kind of midi loop that crashes the Blo and also the Push. It also does not work with Audio interfaces (yet?).

And my personal opinion: MPE is pretty nice but not as groundbreaking as they tell you. At least not with the small pads. Maybe a Roli is the better option here?

After switching the Push on for the first time I tried to upgrade and it took me 14 tries until it successfully upgraded. In general it’s pretty buggy still. It crashes a lot for no reason or external devices won’t work until you re-plug them several times.

What I really love though is how well note editing works with the jog and the buttons. inMusic should steel that. It’s so much nicer than using the touchscreen.

My personal verdict: It’s a nice device with a good build quality and the replaceable hardware open up a world of 3rd party mods we cannot imagine just yet. But the feature set is so rudimentary in standalone that it feels more like a PoC or a toy feature wise at the moment than even a beta. It’s not like “arranger” is missing and I could just be creative in standalone and arrange in the box. It doesn’t even deliver the basics (for me) in standalone yet so I can get to that “let’s arrange in the box” in the first place.

The Push is currently one thing imho: a whole lot of potential that once matured might be the killer.

Currently it’s yet another of those prematurely released products. In Germany we have a saying for things like this “banana products” … because it ripens at the customer’s.
We customers might feel that the company cares for us because they release so many updates. When all they do is play catch-up for the first couple of years.

I am sending it back and wait for another 1 or 2 years and see if it has matured enough. At the moment I would only recommend the controller version and then only to the people where Live is the main driver and that do not already own a Push 2 or “need” MPE. But as I’ve said. A Roli might be the better option for MPE :hmmm:
If you need a Live-like standalone with a full feature set you might as well just get the Force. And save you 1.5k at least for now.

Edit: added some things I forgot to mention.
Last edited by mrmarbury on Sun May 28, 2023 12:46 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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By hyena Sun May 28, 2023 1:05 pm
thanks!
so it looks like another premature release... i wonder why companies keep doing this... what's the matter? they've been workin on it for the past decade , why not wait a bit more and put it out when it's a bit more mature? i'm sure a lot of issues will be addressed , but the issue remains, you spend 2k's for something that is still in its development stage.
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By EnochLight Sun May 28, 2023 7:37 pm
This only confirms that I was right in my decision to give Push 3 a solid 1-2 years before giving it a try. I don’t have time to be yet another banana-product tester. Force has matured to a solid platform and it’s only going to get better, and I don’t really need a portable (battery powered) Push, as I have an MPC Live II for that. :nod:

@mrmarbury - thanks for your first-hand experience report. :worthy: