Non-4/4 Time signatures in MPC 3.6 - close but no cigar

So, time signatures other than 4/4 are supported in 3.6 - yay!!

But....

Important Notes:
• Changing the project time signature updates all sequences to use the new time signature.

Okay, not so useful after all. I use the MPC Key 37 live in an alt folk band and we have songs where the time siganature changes - i.e. I want to be able to have time signatures set at the sequence level, *not* at the project level.

Because it's all maths, I can usually code around this (e.g. if I want 5/4, I take five bars of 4/4 and divide it up into four bars of 5/4 etc). But it is a pain and it's something that's been around in DAWs and other workstations for years. I hope you can fix this for release 3.7.

I use the MPC for live work, not for recording or writing. I use the my longstanding DAW for that and the MPC Key 37 is never going to be able to come close. But it is potentially *so* useful to have what is effectively a sample/sequence player/drum machine/with a synth keyboard to take to small gigs - like open mics. But the MPC has just so many little quirks and bugs, it's proving difficult to work with - the time signature thing is one.

Mike

Don’t older versions of the software (2.x) support different time signatures? Just roll back if so

Yes, 2.15.1 supports different time signatures per bar, you can downgrade by downloading 2.15.1, putting it on a usb stick and selecting the usb stick update option in preferences

Yeah, the time signature handling in MPC3 isn’t perfect, but that’s pretty much the case for most hardware. MPC2, though, was kind of an outlier in how it supported multiple time signatures.

Elijah wrote:MPC2, though, was kind of an outlier in how it supported multiple time signatures.

No it wasn't. All MPCs before that supported that. MPC 3 & The Force are the outliers by not having multiple Time-sigs as of today. Maybe 3.0 is just a transitional OS & certain features will be on 4.0.

Elijah wrote:Yeah, the time signature handling in MPC3 isn’t perfect, but that’s pretty much the case for most hardware. MPC2, though, was kind of an outlier in how it supported multiple time signatures.

Push 3 recently got multiple time signatures, per Scene and per Clip. This effectively means you're writing in the time signature that the part is in, and not having to write songs around how many measures make 4/4 and 7/4 work together in a timeline that only supports one signature.
So no you're wrong here, and every old drum machine from 30 years ago supported multiple time signatures, it's only in the last 15 years that companies have gotten lame about it, killing off time signatures for whatever stupid reason bean counters do this for.

Like the OP here, I really hope Akai aren't convinced one global time signature and the ability to limit a track to partial measures is enough, it certainly is not.

With not a shadow of a doubt I would be in camp MPC 3 if they hadn't decided to screw us around about time signatures. I'm reluctantly in camp Push 3 explicitly because Ableton pulled their heads out of their asses and gave Follow Actions and time signatures to standalone. Push 3 is a far less intuitive standalone workflow but at least it's capable of staying away from the writing process now that time signatures are there in full.

This is a bigger picture issue than just the MPC3 software, for some gawdawful reason lately hardware has been coming out that has huge glaring head scratching "improvements". Recently picked up a Kontrol s88 mk3 from Native Instruments and it's a massive improvement with one just absolute idiotic omission, they removed the solo and mute buttons, put them where the track selection buttons are, and removed track selection. So now it's all jog wheel single track selection, which is just the dumbest thing ever if you have more than 12 tracks..... The whole point of hardware isn't to slow you down.

I agree with @machinesworking, in that I hope Akai will allow for TS changes, on bars/measures at least.

Along the lines of what @machinesworking also talked about, it feels like some people/companies in recent years don't even use the equipment they are part of building, or they have a very strange way of thinking about their equipment in the process of it being used. Not just on the music scene.

The lack of imagination appears rampant.

My theory is that currently TS are global because the clip pool is global. Only if the clip pool belongs to a sequence each of the sequences may have a different TS.

There are probably other ways how non-global clips can be achieved, but my point is that the clips as fine as they may seem are a problem for TS at bar level.

As for they user base Akai has in mind I guess it is still the hip hop beat maker crowed where 4/4 rules. Alternative TS have perhaps been a nod to 6/8 for singer/songwriters or odd signatures for fancy IDM stuff.

I'm pretty sure that you can make great beats with breaks or interludes that are not in 4/4, but it is obviously not high in Akais to-do list.

Masi wrote:My theory is that currently TS are global because the clip pool is global. Only if the clip pool belongs to a sequence each of the sequences may have a different TS.

There are probably other ways how non-global clips can be achieved, but my point is that the clips as fine as they may seem are a problem for TS at bar level.

As for they user base Akai has in mind I guess it is still the hip hop beat maker crowed where 4/4 rules. Alternative TS have perhaps been a nod to 6/8 for singer/songwriters or odd signatures for fancy IDM stuff.

I'm pretty sure that you can make great beats with breaks or interludes that are not in 4/4, but it is obviously not high in Akais to-do list.

In Ableton, which the MPC’s Clip feature seems to be inspired by, each clip can have its own time signature, and different time signatures can also coexist in the arranger view. So I don’t think the Clip feature itself is what’s preventing multiple time signatures on the MPC.

Elijah wrote:

Masi wrote:My theory is that currently TS are global because the clip pool is global. Only if the clip pool belongs to a sequence each of the sequences may have a different TS.

There are probably other ways how non-global clips can be achieved, but my point is that the clips as fine as they may seem are a problem for TS at bar level.

As for they user base Akai has in mind I guess it is still the hip hop beat maker crowed where 4/4 rules. Alternative TS have perhaps been a nod to 6/8 for singer/songwriters or odd signatures for fancy IDM stuff.

I'm pretty sure that you can make great beats with breaks or interludes that are not in 4/4, but it is obviously not high in Akais to-do list.

In Ableton, which the MPC’s Clip feature seems to be inspired by, each clip can have its own time signature, and different time signatures can also coexist in the arranger view. So I don’t think the Clip feature itself is what’s preventing multiple time signatures on the MPC.

They would to redesign the clips to handle different TSigs. Maybe the they will but just wanted to bring it to MPC first & then upgrade both the MPC & Force all at once. The lack of TS is BS!

Elijah wrote:In Ableton, which the MPC’s Clip feature seems to be inspired by, each clip can have its own time signature, and different time signatures can also coexist in the arranger view.

Cool.

Can I play a 9/8 clip at the same time as 4/4 clip in Ableton?

MikeInOxford wrote: Changing the project time signature updates all sequences to use the new time signature.

After a response mail from Akai to a feature request I have hopes that we may see TS per sequences. But of course no promises or timeline.

Masi wrote:

Elijah wrote:In Ableton, which the MPC’s Clip feature seems to be inspired by, each clip can have its own time signature, and different time signatures can also coexist in the arranger view.

Cool.

Can I play a 9/8 clip at the same time as 4/4 clip in Ableton?

Of course. In MPC’s Clip mode too, you can play a 1-bar clip together with one that’s 1 bar + 48 ticks long, like a polymeter.

Elijah wrote:

Masi wrote:Can I play a 9/8 clip at the same time as 4/4 clip in Ableton?

Of course. In MPC’s Clip mode too, you can play a 1-bar clip together with one that’s 1 bar + 48 ticks long, like a polymeter.

Playing loops with different bar lengths and the same TS is easy and probably what I will most likely will ever doing.

The interesting thing is how you synchronize loops with different TS. You have to options:
* beat level
* measure level

The former is probably what I get in Ableton, right?

The latter is more challenging and perhaps limited to 4/4 against 3/4 (or other triple meters) and perhaps 5/4 (quintuple meters) for all practical purposes.

We'll see what the devs at Akai can come up with.