Look Akai - Pioneer Squid Features

I like my force but it could be so much more.
Look akai... All the sequencing and transposing features from pioneer squid should be possible with the force too...
Thanks.

I was curious when someone would make a comparison between the Akai Force and The Squid.

Other than thinking "squid" is a better name than "the force", I don't have much of an opinion based on the specifications released (and the videos of the squid shooting lightning-like bolts made up of a combination of source signals into weirdly placed audio devices). -matt

PS. But, I can speculate - and based on my experience with the Pioneer DJ DJS-1000 Performance Sampler, my guess is that the Squid is almost an amazing machine that could have been a literal 'game changer.' But somewhere between the visionary designer/engineer stage and the approved prototype stage, the Squid was crippled in a few surgically precise ways (PioneerDJ seems to excel at this process).

I am sure more than a few of the features the squid has on the force will be implemented at some point. If akai expands their midi effects and control from external hardware, a cheap midi controller will cover all the ground of the squid and then some.

The other toriaz stuff is actually high quality but as mentioned by matt missing huge critical features. Who wants a sampler that can't normalize, delete, or even edit a sample in a efficient manner? I enjoyed my time with the sp-16 and the sound is some the best out there but it was just really lacking and with the live I could run circles around my workflow.

Pioneer should've just created a full blown sampler/sequencer with the SP 16. The Pioneer DJ Toraiz Squid is just silly.

I could deal with the short falls.... but the sequencer is the reason I eventually sold it. I wouldn't want anything to do with this new thing even if I had a need for standalone sequencer. The resolution was very low on the sp-16, to the point I would have real concerns about squid, I you couldn't just tap out a beat with out it seeming off. There may have been workarounds or whatever, but I had no real time or need for another mpc like device.

If the midi implementation would have been better I would have kept around to mess with keygroups, it had a really awesome sound and a stereo analog filter. It's cool tech don't get me wrong but the sp-16 imo should have been made into a keygroup/sample player, with the added looping and timestreching (which was better thatn akai's algo).

If you only do four on the floor and launch loops, this might be right up your ally. Illgreen and them seem to be liking the workflow of the djs, so they may have improved the areas I had issues with it.

If you're using this with ableton, why wouldn't you just get a used push. I guess the target market is to have this as the king running a "dawless" set-up tracking out roland boutiques and modular. I donno... maybe this would be cool logic or some other daws? maybe reason?

My experience being with a Pioneer DJ DJS-1000, I don't know much about the Toraiz line (other than the DJS got 'live sampling' a while back before the SP-16 (which had come out earlier that year) and SP-16 users went nuts and rightly so). But I do know that the DJS-1000 and the SP-16 did have something in common, and it was a Pioneer DJ piece of software that was supposed to assist in managing samples and creating Scenes/Projects (pre- adding to samper stuff) for both the SP-16 and DJS-1000.

Most sane, rational people might assume this piece of software is Rekordbox (or some add on to Rekordbox). Because, you know, the RB database manages your music and possesses maybe the best 'export to usb' solution within the dj software market) . Plus RB Performance mode has a little basic sampler built into it, using the RB database to manage the samples (like it would with your dj music).

*sigh* But no, this is Pioneer DJ we're talking about...they gave us DJS-TSP Project Creator. (I still feel my skin crawl when I hear that name.) So whatever the Squid might be capable of, Squid users have to use SQUID Manager. Here's an explanation via from
TORAIZ SQUID Addendum Ver1.10 EN: http://docs.pioneerdj.com/Manuals/TORAI ... um/?page=4

Squid looks like fun and has some cool live playback features but is still pretty limited compared to other sequencers. Low resolution, low number of steps.

Not a bad price for what it has though. At $600 it’s priced pretty good for the feature sets.

You could do a lot of fun live stuff to your tracks with this.

Will keep an eye on bug lists for it. If it runs like it is supposed to, It’s a good deal for what you get.

It has potential.

I have some other step sequencers that do more, but they cost more too. A lot more.

When I saw the feature sets and videos I wasn’t greatly impressed - until I saw the price.

Compare to Social Entropy Engine, Squarp Pyramid, Kilpatrick Audio Carbon sequencers to get an idea of the Squid’s competition. Not sure if it should be compared to an Akai Force at all.

I’m not surprised at some of the replies here though. A lot of people don’t “get” hardware step sequencers like this with no built in sound sources

Yes - for DAWless, yes for midi time sync with DAW

More for the same needs a person would consider the sequencers I listed like the Pyramid, Engine, or Carbon sequencers - or some modular sequencer offerings

Like a Beatstep Pro but on steroids. Would be a great companion with any sound sources like:

DJS-1000, Synths, I believe it has DIN Sync also so TB303’s and older TR series drum machines could sync with it easy, samplers that can be mapped easy by midi, multi-samplers capable of full instrument sample sets, modular, etc - just about any midi/CV controllable sound source would be a good pair with it.

Even Ableton Live is not capable of manipulating a single midi sequence so many ways

You can create all the variations in Ableton or an MPC or MV series sampler/sequencer and trigger them in any order you want and reproduce the effect, but creating all the variations is tedious. This allows one midi sequence to be created and then flip it live a bunch of different ways instead of pre-programming it in many midi clips (or tracks/patterns) and triggering all the different clips (or tracks/patterns) in the order you want.

Haven’t played with Elektron stuff but hope it would have these capabilities too. Octatrack, digitakt should have this capability if it doesn’t already.

A good arpeggiator with templates could get a similar effect, but it’s still not exactly the same.

Breaks out of repetitive loops so sequences aren’t as stagnant.

I would've preferred that the Toraiz SP 16, The Squid, and TORAIZ AS-1 was one unit. If you get them all, you're in the same ball park as the MPC X. So why not just release one unit and take on the MPC X directly? My issue with the Squid, is that it further exposes the weakest of the SP 16. However, I do applaud Pioneer for being able to create an entire system, that work with each other. This is how the MPC X or Live should function with Akai Force.

SP 16 $1299
AS-1 $499
Squid: $600

Total for the system: $2398

while I don't really want any of the recent pioneer products (maybe the synth if i had to take one) I am really glad to see them in the game. This is their round 1.. and they managed that as their debut. Maybe a bit ambitious, but if they can manage to iron our these products... i look forward to seeing what they will do in round 2. Akai has had enough time being alone in this market (IMO)... even if I don't really want what pioneer is offering, it may cause both companies to be a little more competitive.

I mean, if we're going to talk about new midi sequencers, the Squarp Pyramid has them all beat by a wide margin, as far as function and usability goes!

sing-modulator wrote:I mean, if we're going to talk about new midi sequencers, the Squarp Pyramid has them all beat by a wide margin, as far as function and usability goes!

If they get some of those bugs worked out that are showstoppers it certainly would be.

Right now I wouldn’t choose a Pyramid because of reported issues. On paper, it looks great though. The right price too.

Who knows though - Pioneer may experience the same onslaught of bugs they’ll have to work out too.

Akai has certainly had its share.

I chose the Synthstrom Audible Deluge over Squarp Pyramid and very glad I did. They kill bugs fast and have implemented a ton of user requested features.

Features:

SYNTHESIZER
Full-featured internal synthesizer engine (subtractive and FM)
Polyphony limited only by CPU. Up to 64 synth voices may play simultaneously
Live adjustment of synth and effect parameters with two endless-turn encoders with LED level-meters
Easy buttons to select the functions these control
Parameter automation recording
Arpeggiator
Dedicated volume and tempo knobs
LFOs and envelopes on each synth / sample. Highly customizable modulation matrix
Synthesizer engine features LPF / HPF, FM, portamento, oscillator sync, ring modulation, unison detune, and more
Four basic digital waveforms, two analog-modeled waveforms, or select any WAV file from SD card
12dB/oct and 24dB/oct filters, with optional filter drive mode
FX including delay, reverb, chorus, flanger, phaser, bitcrusher, sidechain effect, live stutter, and more
Keyboard mode, where the pads become a live instrument on a 2D grid
Preset or custom scales, or chromatic mode
Live processing of the audio input including polyphonic pitch shifting (according to sequenced notes), filters, and all FX

SEQUENCER
Piano-roll-style sequencing on 128 full RGB pads (16×8) with scrolling and zooming
Launch, mute and interact with tracks live
Arranger view, to sequence your instrument parts into a longer composition
Sequencing limited only by device RAM (over 2 million notes)
Simultaneously output separate sequences to all 16 MIDI channels, 2 CV / gate channels and 2 additional gate outputs, in addition to internal synthesizers / samples (limited only by CPU)
CC control and sequencing on all 16 MIDI channels
Probability and iteration based step / note conditions
Undo / redo note and parameter automation editing and recording. Number of undo steps limited only by RAM
Advanced syncing capabilities. Non-standard time signatures supported, polymetric
Adjustable swing
Horizontal pattern shift
MIDI program change and bank select

SAMPLER
Streams all samples directly from SD card, without limitations based on RAM size
Up 90 unaffected sample voices may play simultaneously
Multisampling. Fast folder import with automatic pitch detection
Time-stretching and pitch-shifting
High quality sample interpolation and rate conversion via 16-point windowed sinc
Waveform view on main pads, with scrolling, zooming, and loop point editing
Same filters, modulation matrix and FX as synth engine
Resampling
Slicer feature for cutting a sample into evenly sized slices

CONNECTIVITY
Two ¼” line outputs, and 3.5mm headphone output
3.5mm mic input, ¼” line input, and built-in microphone
2x CV outputs. 0 – 10V, individually configurable to between 0.01 and 2.00 volts per octave, or to hertz-per-volt
4x gate / trigger outputs individually configurable to v-trig or s-trig, with shared voltage switchable between 5V and 12V
Trigger clock output, configurable up to 192 PPQN
Trigger clock input, also with adjustable PPQN
MIDI input and output via hardware connectors or USB. Syncing via MIDI beat clock as master or slave
Powered via USB B (cable included) or 9 – 12V centre-negative (pedal-style) power supply (500mA) (not included)
User-upgradeable firmware – development is ongoing at Synthstrom Audible
Internal speaker
Rechargeable Li-ion battery (6+ hours of operation)
Printed manual of firmware 2.1.0 is included

Only a couple hundred more than Squarp Pyramid