Akai Force Forum: Everything relating to the Akai Force, the new 64 pad, clip-based standalone sampler/groovebox from Akai. While not an MPC, it shares many similar software features to the MPC X/MPC Live including the same underlying code-base.
User avatar
By MPC-Tutor Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:43 am
darkinprg wrote:By now based on your replie, youre just a nickname (worse if akai moderator) on a forum. Biased about a product, which has its flaws...

I had my time on product forums, this was the worse experience, and you on behalf of Akai showed me to go away from Akai products...


This forum is not run by Akai, it's a forum for MPC/Force users he's just another Force user like you. Akai has zero involvement in this forum.

Seems like everyone was voluntarily taking the time to help you in this topic, despite not being Akai staff. Does that change your perception of how you were treated in this topic?
User avatar
By Koekepan Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:34 pm
I did a careful review of the whole thread, and here's my conclusion:

darkinprg didn't actually perform any test data that really gave us isolated performance figures. What he did do was complain about synchronisation issues when MIDI or outboard audio signals were involved. The video he linked shows a 14ms delay configuration, but nothing about the setup behind it.

However, the latency that I actually measured appeared to be consistent, and more-or-less reasonable in the general field of MIDI and DA/AD conversion activities. So much so that he could basically fix it according to his original post with an included delay - an 8ms delay that wouldn't even really show up as flamming, so much as some comb filtering on a duplicated signal, and substantially inaudible when comparing unrelated signals (such as a kick/hat).

He makes a point about being an IT guy and working for a music shop (a juxtaposition which raises some questions of its own) but doesn't address questions that would be logical in any serious problem analysis, nor address how a larger studio deals with this sort of problem. He just, in his own words, wants to "AS A CUSTOMER I AM INTERESTED IN PLACING THE DEVICE ON MY DESK AND HAVE FUN" without tackling the problems of studio arrangement, and without actually reporting comparable performance numbers on anything else.

Delving into my own murky past, if he were my customer I'd probably reach for the bottle of aspirin and the wineglass before prefacing my next sally with: "Please work with me here ..."

For what it's worth, there are plenty of search results, for those so inclined, on octatrack MIDI latency, and darkinprg doesn't address the detailed setups for the sake of comparison, let alone measured latencies at different stages, so who really knows what his problem is. He hasn't told us enough to know.

And we may never know, because he returned the Force and is now apparently sulking about not being able to get it to work. Oh, well.
User avatar
By Koekepan Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:54 am
Just found in the latest version of the manual that the Force wants its audio interface set to 128 sample buffer size, 44.1KHz. That's basically 3ms worth of latency built into it. Not much, but of course there are more layers in the system.

But I would have doubled it, just to reduce underruns.
By andreat668 Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:56 am
I had the Octatrack for like 6 years, had the original black for 4 years, after i bought the mk2 in (late) 2018 and keep it for like 2 years and after i sold it for buying the Force.
Well the Force runs circles around the Octa even just with 3.06 OS.
The Octatrack had immense timing issues until the mk2 came out, I experienced that myself, elektron didi not rectify that until 2019... (and still timing is not that great on it).
Best timing from an Elektron machine is for sure the machinedrum mk2 uw, which i still have.
Now you would read all that ass licking on the net about elektron and octatrack and digitakt and bla,bla.bla
Truth is they are very limited machine and the construction quality is not that great, specially the knobs and buttons wear out very, very quickly.
Some people tend to put the Octatrack on a pedestal, no matter what.
For live sessions it may be decent, but still it is a very limited machine, with convoluted workflow and high price tag.
Elektron is smart with marketing moves and commercials.
My advice to young people and everyone in general is do not believe the hype and the internet bullshit, go to the store and try out stuff and make opinion for yourself.
Good Luck!
Last edited by andreat668 on Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Koekepan Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:58 pm
For the record, I don't hate the Elektron products, and I have a lot of respect for Cenk A.K.A. Dataline as a performer.

If I didn't have the Force, I'd still want the Monomachine.

I just don't believe the hype about latency-free communications in a world of MIDI.
User avatar
By EnochLight Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:44 pm
darkinprg wrote:I work in a music shop, and I will be informing and openly NOT RECOMMENDING Akai devices to our customers because of this...


Koekepan wrote:I did a careful review of the whole thread, and here's my conclusion...


Here's my advice after reviewing this thread: darkinprg isn't qualified to work in a music shop and shouldn't be giving any customers advice on anything IMHO. :nod: :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
By Koekepan Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:48 pm
Interesting: in today's SonicTALK (number 691), around half an hour in Rich Hilton is reflecting on the mistiming-related feel of older techno, and his practices with older kit that wasn't going to sync within 60ms, never mind 16.

Perspective really matters.
By misterflibble Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:38 pm
andreat668 wrote:
darkinprg wrote:Cheers,
do you have any tips / suggestion on how to test this midi loop?


I tested this so far:
Force master, Octa slave, both audio into ext mixer = Force drums play slightly later then midi synced devices.

Octa master, Force slave, both audio into ext mixer = timing seemed correct

Having the other device returned on internal/usb audio input introduces again some latency which then only "deepens" the offsyncing...


I took it for a jam yesterday with 3other guys/setups. There was also MPC One, but the guy had it new, and slaved to the rest, so he didnt know if that happens too with One...
After a while of struggling i had to use force only as master clock for all of us, fancy master clock :)...

I will test it probably today against Ableton link, and how the devices behave then...

I am aware of audio buffers etc, thats why i think, maybe some compensation parameter can be added to input/output (either midi and audio) so these could be tweaked somehow ..

My idea was to replace octatrack, maybe even ableton partially, but with these "features' it kinda doesnt fit that idea...

***It is unbelievable that still today, octatrack wasnt succeded on the realtime sampling field... :worthy:


I am going to share my experience about Force timing issue:

I bought this machine end 2019 with 3.05 os.
At that time I spend all summer in Italy (Rome), the temperature got crazy hot and humid, specially July and August, temperature went up to 36 celsius degrees and 85% of humidity.
Now I am telling you the Force were struggling allot during this period, If temperature reached around 33 celsius degree up, the machine would get scary hot next to the touchscreen on the left side.
Also after 30- 45 minutes of normal operation the timing would get super wild, like sequences starting a bit later, some glitches, etc..
Fortunately I found a workaround for that which was basically producing just at evening/night and switch off the Force after a hour of operation and wait 15 minutes.
After I moved to Germany, I updated to 3.06 and I never had this kind of issues anymore.
From this experience I realised Force may act weird (OS sluggishness, wild timing, instability) when used in an environment with extreme hot weather conditions.
Also this is probably due to the ''passive'' cooling system architecture of the CPU installed into the Force.
Thats why the Force, the Live mk2 and the One got huge open grids on the sides. I guess the MPC X is less prone to overheating due to its ''spacious" layout and bigger form factor.
So keep in mind high temperature is something you want to avoid while using this machines, specially if you want to use them as master clock.


Man, that’s interesting. I noticed my Force getting warm while I’m use but didn’t notice the difference in ventilation between it and my MPC Live. Might be a good use case for one of those laptop cooling fan stations if it becomes an issue.
User avatar
By Koekepan Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:57 pm
Just a straight-forward delay effect, nothing fancy. Everything on that channel is then delayed by however long. Turn off the timing sync to get to ms/s delays.