Akai Force Forum: Everything relating to the Akai Force, the new 64 pad, clip-based standalone sampler/groovebox from Akai. While not an MPC, it shares many similar software features to the MPC X/MPC Live including the same underlying code-base.
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By Koekepan Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:45 pm
We've had a rash of complaints about what the Force isn't. It's not a looper in the same sense that a dedicated looper is. It's not a multi-track recorder in the same sense that a dedicated multi-track recorder is. It's not an MPC - well, go figure, otherwise Akai would have called it one.

It is a sophisticated sampler. At its core, that's what it is, and what it does. It will handle samples as drum-style kits, and it will handle samples as keygroups.

It also has the ability to trigger, instead of internal samples, either internal or external synths - the latter by way of MIDI.

It has a stable of effects to layer on sound, whether throughput or locally generated. You can mix things together, and you can render results. You can save results. You can attach additional controllers, and audio interfaces to drive more sounds in and out of it.

It's a sampler, and a sample player that expands that concept to be a studio master.

The Force isn't a DJ tool; it's a sampler that's happiest in the studio. Could you run a show on it? Of course! But if you're expecting it to hang with an MTR, a wall of eurorack, a looper and a laptop, you'll be disappointed.

On the other hand, none of the above can do what the Force does, unaided. The laptop can mangle audio six ways from Sunday but without a physical interface and audio interface it has no hope of keeping up with the Force in terms of user experience and workflow. An audio looper can layer loops and slap them around, but has no synthesis capability at all and generally not much arrangement or signal control capability either. An MTR will let you record a band, mix them, do comping and doubling of parts and deliver a whole track, but doesn't do much for live performance, synthesis or anything like it. And if you're trying to compose anything complex on your wall of eurorack - well, good luck with that one.

Perhaps we need a welcome-to-the-Force announcement that starts with what it is? Because it's amazing and powerful and delicious, but poorly presented and communicated?
By dryad-66 Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:41 pm
MPC has the MPC software……Force has (i gather) has very good integration with ableton live!!!!!!!!! So what ever is missing inside the force can be gleamed from Ableton if you have it.I had a lil try with force 2 days ago in the shop and now im trying to get my hands on one.I feel i need a full song production unit,disk streaming also helps with this.Ive also got ableton live.Seems to me like a no brainier.Really like the X i have atm too but can probably swap without too much pain.Great to have choices……. :smoker:
By gab3s Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:34 pm
here it is the show that i do with the Force.
I believe it can also be a great vocal FX tool for people like me who like to sing with lots of it; I play a little bit of Reggae/DUB and it is great for do it live and mixed it up with my vocals.
Like for Trap Singers for example it can bring up the level of your performance because you can play stems and mix them for each concert.
Some of the biggest challenge that i faced when i used to do my sets with ableton live it was latency and bugs that only came up when i stepped on a stage.
Fortunally, with the Force is not perfect but i feel a lot more confident when i perform live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUyLoQpfW6U
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By EnochLight Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:41 pm
SnowMetal wrote:The Force is Ableton Live's special-needs stepsister.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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By Montfrooij Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:45 am
Koekepan wrote:
The Force isn't a DJ tool; it's a sampler that's happiest in the studio. Could you run a show on it? Of course!


I'm considering one for live work.
So I have one (hopefully) reliable tool that I can use to play backing tracks, occasional extra content (drum track, plugin) and add some more layers to our performance.

My other (most flexible) option is probably ableton live + controller + laptop thing.
But that adds up quickly in size and price.

So hence the question, why do you feel it is most happy in the studio (opposed to live work I assume)
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By NearTao Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:45 am
My take on it is that the Force is a studio recording/looping tool...

but you can absolutely use it as a live performance tool for triggering clips, playing pads, recording/overdubbing midi, etc...

Where it falls a bit flat is that while you can record audio, you cannot overdub. With practice I am sure that somebody can do recording live as well, but the interface is a bit more obtuse than a stomp box looper... making it a fair bit harder to play an instrument, trigger recording a loop, stop recording a loop, etc...

The looper is there, and is a nice addition (just as it is on the MPC), but it isn't really incorporated into the workflow... making it a bit wonky to record the loop, apply overdubs, and then export to a clip. You *can* do this, but it isn't simple or automatic.

Hope that helps...
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By Koekepan Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:31 pm
So hence the question, why do you feel it is most happy in the studio (opposed to live work I assume)


The Force is, in my view, a fairly close analogue to a workstation such as the Kronos. Many people can and have used the Kronos live on stage, to dazzling effect. Its rich library of sounds, its performance interface, these all make it possible to perform with the Kronos. The same is true of the Force.

There are some annoyances on the Force, strictly in terms of live performance, that require some workarounds. For example, the Force doesn't let you load multiple projects at the same time and smoothly transition between them, unless you pre-render them into tracks and use something like the A/B slider, in which case your live performance is more-or-less one huge project. Nothing wrong with this, but not the most flexible. Disc streaming does make this easier these days, but it's not a perfect workflow match. For live players, it's possible to do live looping and solo improvisation on it, but it's not as clean a match for that as a dedicated looper or performance sequencer. You'd get further with the NDLR, or the Social Entropy Engine, or any one of a range of guitar looping pedals.

In the studio, these really aren't major problems. In the studio the Force actually has better sequencer access than the aforementioned Kronos, the ability to do straightforward sampling as well as autosampling whole keygroups while also driving a nest of MIDI devices and run a couple of dozen audio channels makes it a beast. The sound design capabilities are strong (and getting stronger), the effects library is solid (and getting better), and with a mic and possibly the controller of your choice, it's about as good as anything on the market.

For a studio master the only thing currently on the market that I'd put against the Force from another manufacturer would be the Kurzweil K2700. Everything else just has too many functional gaps. The Fantom series lacks proper linear sequencing, the Kronos is at end of life but its replacement (Nautilus) lost a lot of performance controls and has limited effects and routing capacity compared to the Force, the Genos is just ludicrously expensive for what it offers... yeah.

So I'm not saying that the Force is bad on stage. You'd just want to plan carefully and pick your workarounds. In the studio the bigger question is what you want to do, not what will cripple you.
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By Montfrooij Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:00 pm
NearTao wrote:My take on it is that the Force is a studio recording/looping tool...

but you can absolutely use it as a live performance tool for triggering clips, playing pads, recording/overdubbing midi, etc...

Where it falls a bit flat is that while you can record audio, you cannot overdub. With practice I am sure that somebody can do recording live as well, but the interface is a bit more obtuse than a stomp box looper... making it a fair bit harder to play an instrument, trigger recording a loop, stop recording a loop, etc...

The looper is there, and is a nice addition (just as it is on the MPC), but it isn't really incorporated into the workflow... making it a bit wonky to record the loop, apply overdubs, and then export to a clip. You *can* do this, but it isn't simple or automatic.

Hope that helps...


Thnx!
Yeah, it is hard to choose the right gear sometimes since all options have quite a few cons.
I feel like the Force is coming close to a nice performing tool for me since it gives me the most overview and a lot of hands on control.
The only reason I never got one so far is it’s impractical way of handling samples ‘on a timeline’. The sample only exists as a trigger, not as something that is going to start at the right position when you pause a track and start again.
And I see why they had to do this from their MPC way, as you didn’t have a lineair timeline in the older mpc’s.
So for long sample playback there is really only a daw that works conveniently in a ‘band’ situation where you sometimes have members that start early or late and you want to quickly jump to a certain position and have the sample playing at the right position too.

Can’t have it all I guess
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By Montfrooij Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:06 pm
Koekepan wrote:
So hence the question, why do you feel it is most happy in the studio (opposed to live work I assume)


The Force is, in my view, a fairly close analogue to a workstation such as the Kronos. Many people can and have used the Kronos live on stage, to dazzling effect. Its rich library of sounds, its performance interface, these all make it possible to perform with the Kronos. The same is true of the Force.

There are some annoyances on the Force, strictly in terms of live performance, that require some workarounds. For example, the Force doesn't let you load multiple projects at the same time and smoothly transition between them, unless you pre-render them into tracks and use something like the A/B slider, in which case your live performance is more-or-less one huge project. Nothing wrong with this, but not the most flexible. Disc streaming does make this easier these days, but it's not a perfect workflow match. For live players, it's possible to do live looping and solo improvisation on it, but it's not as clean a match for that as a dedicated looper or performance sequencer. You'd get further with the NDLR, or the Social Entropy Engine, or any one of a range of guitar looping pedals.

In the studio, these really aren't major problems. In the studio the Force actually has better sequencer access than the aforementioned Kronos, the ability to do straightforward sampling as well as autosampling whole keygroups while also driving a nest of MIDI devices and run a couple of dozen audio channels makes it a beast. The sound design capabilities are strong (and getting stronger), the effects library is solid (and getting better), and with a mic and possibly the controller of your choice, it's about as good as anything on the market.

For a studio master the only thing currently on the market that I'd put against the Force from another manufacturer would be the Kurzweil K2700. Everything else just has too many functional gaps. The Fantom series lacks proper linear sequencing, the Kronos is at end of life but its replacement (Nautilus) lost a lot of performance controls and has limited effects and routing capacity compared to the Force, the Genos is just ludicrously expensive for what it offers... yeah.

So I'm not saying that the Force is bad on stage. You'd just want to plan carefully and pick your workarounds. In the studio the bigger question is what you want to do, not what will cripple you.

Thanks!

Working with long samples in a band situation (where members might start too early or late) is the only thing that kept me from getting one.
I tried this with the MPC, but it was not convenient enough.
But other that that, it feels like a good all in one box for me (no audio looping here)
We’ll see what my new laptop will bring with the DAW (previousl one gave lots of timing issues) since that feels the most easy way for me.
But the Force is more fun I think

Lots of things to consider and little time to do so