New Ableton Push 3 (Standalone) - Force Competitor?

https://www.ableton.com/en/push/

How many of you guys is gonna jump ship?
Who thinks this will lead to a new Force?

no arranger mode, just more clip launching. pass (for now)

11th gen i3 with 8GB RAM also looks good.

But what does it come with sound-wise?

Maschine+ can load a lot of NI libraries and effects. MPCs get instruments and effects from Air. You have to pay an extra $400 to get Ableton Live Suite - that seems like a blunder.

But if you do have Live Suite, maybe this is a strong contender.

It has things in hope to see in force2. After watching some videos I know this isn’t for me but I would love some of those pads and upgradable ram.

I don't use my Force. I got tired of waiting for a Push 3 so I bought a MPC X . Now I will sell my Force and MPC X to fund the Push 3.

Do Not Want.

No arranger. Just clip launching. Limited I/O compared to the Force. So expensive, once you've bought high enough software to take it out of the base level, that you could buy a Force, an audio interface, a Blofeld and a dirty, dirty, dirty weekend with a hooker in Bangkok. Fewer dedicated controls than the Force, and while XY buttons sound nice aftertouch already exists (as well as external controllers using the Force's better I/O).

The supposed benefits don't excite me - battery? For "up to" 2.5 hours? Not impressed. ADAT? Most of that gear is very expensive. Limited USB host support for things like storage and external audio interfaces.

The upgrade access is nice, but not a deal-sealer for me. The non-touch screen would have been nicer if it were larger so that you could actually see more of your work - but if you don't get the arranger view, what would the point be? Extending pedal jacks to get more CV/Gate is ugly, not clever. Registering your stuff is a huge turn-off. It's the number one reason for not having a Maschine+ either.

All in all, I'd rather buy a new laptop, put a DAW on it (even a free one like LMMS), have better I/O, more upgrade options, more connectivity options, and a lot more cash left in the bank even after buying a controller, a laptop bag, an audio interface and a weekend in Bangkok.

Koekepan wrote:Do Not Want.

No arranger. Just clip launching. Limited I/O compared to the Force. So expensive, once you've bought high enough software to take it out of the base level, that you could buy a Force, an audio interface, a Blofeld and a dirty, dirty, dirty weekend with a hooker in Bangkok. Fewer dedicated controls than the Force, and while XY buttons sound nice aftertouch already exists (as well as external controllers using the Force's better I/O).

The supposed benefits don't excite me - battery? For "up to" 2.5 hours? Not impressed. ADAT? Most of that gear is very expensive. Limited USB host support for things like storage and external audio interfaces.

The upgrade access is nice, but not a deal-sealer for me. The non-touch screen would have been nicer if it were larger so that you could actually see more of your work - but if you don't get the arranger view, what would the point be? Extending pedal jacks to get more CV/Gate is ugly, not clever. Registering your stuff is a huge turn-off. It's the number one reason for not having a Maschine+ either.

All in all, I'd rather buy a new laptop, put a DAW on it (even a free one like LMMS), have better I/O, more upgrade options, more connectivity options, and a lot more cash left in the bank even after buying a controller, a laptop bag, an audio interface and a weekend in Bangkok.

Great points, but to be honest, all I l'm interested in is that 3x dirty weekend with the hoe

A few benjamins will go a long, long way in Bangkok, not to mention a few other places.

That said, it's a useful way of thinking about the prices of things on the market. The Force is available for around a grand, and will create a finished song (depending on mastering details) from within itself, or by running your studio. Anything that costs much more had darn well better do all of that, plus exhaust you at night and make a killer cup of coffee in the morning.

Koekepan wrote:A few benjamins will go a long, long way in Bangkok, not to mention a few other places.

That said, it's a useful way of thinking about the prices of things on the market. The Force is available for around a grand, and will create a finished song (depending on mastering details) from within itself, or by running your studio. Anything that costs much more had darn well better do all of that, plus exhaust you at night and make a killer cup of coffee in the morning.

So basically it should be a "Me love you long time" kind of device

It had better have attachments and potential to afford a wide array of partners an equally wide array of sinister delights. And if you're feeling froggy enough to call it the "Push", it had better serve all pushing-related needs, if you catch my drift (and I think you do, you naughty boy).

Seriously, I could buy two brand new Forces for the price of one of these things, well-equipped.

On a price/utility rating, I think that it's competitive with the Maschine+ (up to a point - Native Instruments have upped their game a lot from what I understand) but it's not a threat to the Force on either feature, or the number of bangs for your benjamin.

Koekepan wrote:It had better have attachments and potential to afford a wide array of partners an equally wide array of sinister delights. And if you're feeling froggy enough to call it the "Push", it had better serve all pushing-related needs, if you catch my drift (and I think you do, you naughty boy).

Seriously, I could buy two brand new Forces for the price of one of these things, well-equipped.

On a price/utility rating, I think that it's competitive with the Maschine+ (up to a point - Native Instruments have upped their game a lot from what I understand) but it's not a threat to the Force on either feature, or the number of bangs for your benjamin.

I totally get where your "coming" from on all points

Maybe they know when the new Force is dropping & are trying to get some quick cash until they have more competition. I think the Force was made from Akai taking the Push design & thinking, what if the Push & the MPC got it on & had a baby. And since it came out 2 years after the MPC they had time to learn how to make the OS more powerful/stable than the MPC. Not say the Force is bug-free but compared to MPC it way better.

B-Wise wrote:https://www.ableton.com/en/push/

1 .How many of you guys is gonna jump ship?
2. Who thinks this will lead to a new Force?

1. Ableton users that need tight integration and those who import baked audio loops and mix them together for better timestretching . Or anyone who is thrilled with the MPE pads
2. I doubt Akai will launch new hardware but hopefully there will be major software updates focusing on better workflow

PS . sold my Force few weeks ago since Akai seems to focus on plugins which (for me) are useless

Aren’t these two things different devices at their respective core?

Force was never marketed as “a DAW in a box”.. lots of us try to use it that way because we can see how to do it.

Force is an amazingly spec’d drum machine performance platform.

Push 3 is literally a daw in a box. Made by the people who make possibly the most popular DAW on the planet.

I think that B-Wise may have nailed it: the Ableton guys want in while they see an angle, and decided to play ball with Intel because of what it takes, in computing terms, to run Live. Standalone devices clearly have a loyal following, and Team Ableton wants in on that action. Their problem is that they messed up price per feature, and didn't even do a good job of identifying key features. Akai Pro, love them or hate them, have a solid handle on what a standalone device has to provide to be useful to the working musician.

Basically, Akai's product managers were drinking in the back alley, and Ableton's product managers came around the corner and started talking smack. Now Akai's product managers have the opposition in a headlock, and pulled a sharpie out of their back pocket to start drawing on Ableton's face.

Street justice is rough, man.

stonecoldgroove wrote:Aren’t these two things different devices at their respective core?

Force was never marketed as “a DAW in a box”.. lots of us try to use it that way because we can see how to do it.

Force is an amazingly spec’d drum machine performance platform.

Push 3 is literally a daw in a box. Made by the people who make possibly the most popular DAW on the planet.

That's how I look at.