Best integrated midi keyboard for Akai Force?

Hey all! I'm looking into the Novation Keyboards as a convenient player for the Force. Specifically the SL MK3. I've learned that it integrates very well with Ableton, and since the Force is pretty much modeled after Ableton, I thought....maybe this could work out well? If anybody has tried this combo, please share your experience? Also, if you have any other recommendations for midi keyboards that work well, I am open to that too. Thanks!

I don't know what exactly you mean by "integration". There is no integration of the standalone machine to anything. It's not Ableton. There are no "remote scripts" on the Force, nothing integrates into the Force, not even any Akai branded controller product. There is MIDI learn for some things, but many important things cannot be remote-controlled from outside, such as: clip and scene launching, Q-links, and navigation. You can only launch clips with the Force's own buttons. You can only use Screen mode Q-link controlling with the Force's actual Q-link knobs. There are no ready-made control sets or configurations you could download from anywhere, for any specific controller. The Novation keyboard will be no different from any other MIDI controller. You'll have to MIDI-learn things one by one manually and build a template project for yourself.

Assuming that you aren't planning to use the OS hacks, of which I don't have any experience.

I was just curious if any midi controls are a little bit smarter and can map to parameters more intuitively than others. The Force has been on the market for some time now, so I'm surprised that there aren't any ready made mappings or templates to download. I don't think this was a foolish question. Has anyone here had a great and fun experience with a midi keyboard and find its attributes useful and intuitive with the Force?

From what feature or facility could such smartness come from? By default, nothing is mapped to anything, and the MIDI controller cannot make the mappings for you. Each mapping and routing has to be specifically configured on the Force, one by one, and the controller cannot do it, you have to do it.

I don't know about smart stuff, but there are bizarre pitfalls. If you intend to use the Force as a MIDI Clock slave, and the clock master device also as for MIDI control, for example controlling mixer channel levels, then pressing the Force's SHIFT key will stop clips. Which kind of makes the whole thing unusable, because you need to press shift a lot. If you want to keep your shift key working, you'll have to disable Control mode for the MIDI device/port. And then no more MIDI clock. Fun experience! Ha ha.

All I'm saying is, don't get any high hopes.

Yes! I recently discovered the whole shift button thing. WTF. The Force will always have to be the master for my scenarios now. So, I guess my specific question is...

The novation has 8 tracks for sequencing. Can I map each track to a different midi channel and have those channels correspond to different midi tracks on the force and control each track that way? If so, that would be fantastic.

Not concerned about clip launching. Just want the most bang for my buck. I am also an Ableton user, so this keyboard would serve multiple purposes for me.

Thanks for the advice!

There's the multi-channel note-off bug. A note-off on ANY channel will end that note on ALL channels. If you have multiple MIDI channels holding a C-4 note, the moment any of the notes ends with a C-4 note-off message, all of the notes end at the same time. It'll be OK as long as you divide the MIDI note range for your instrument tracks somehow. Track 1 gets C-1 to B-3, Track 2 gets C-4 to B-6, etc. It's a fun experience. The same feature is on the MPC as well, so I've heard.

The Force works as a drum machine and MIDI sound player, but the notes have to come from its own sequencer. It's a semi usable sampler too, but there are things like, the mod-wheel setting of keygroup instruments reset to zero i.e. no mod-wheel for you, every time you load a project.

The best workflow for making larger live sets seems to be: start in Ableton, prepare everything and export/import to Force. Use the Force as MIDI clock slave, and other stuff on other independend devices viewtopic.php?f=49&t=217026

I'm using the Force as a MIDI clock slave a lot, because then I can use a Boss RC-5 looper with backing beats coming from the Force. The Force itself doesn't work as a looper, and it can't even record audio as a clock slave.

Right on! So it can be done, but there are bugs to watch out for. I got ya.

AFAIK, the multi-channel note-off bug renders the Force and MPC close to useless as a multitimbral sound module. I mean, why would you use it, if you have options.

Here's the right way to use the Force viewtopic.php?f=49&t=217026

Do you get what I'm asking though? If I have 8 sequencer track options in my controller, it would be nice to send it into the Force via midi channels 1-8. I know how the Force SHOULD be used, but the point of something like this is so you can make it your own and mold it to your style of performance. I mean, that's why I bought it in the first place.

Yes I understand what you mean. Play different sounds with the Novation's 8-track sequencer, using the Force as a multitimbral MIDI sound module. You can do it, but the tracks will cut each other's notes. Like if you have a chord pad track and a piano track, the piano cuts off the chord pad's notes, if it happens to play the same MIDI note as the pad. Even if the tracks use separate MIDI channels. Try it and you'll see how well it works.

Man, that's a bummer. Is it really just a bug?

However, I assume that if I have each sequence routed to it's on midi channel and I don't have a sequence going then I can use each track as a way of just playing each instrument and record a midi clip in the force? or will it cut of a note note matter what? Does that make sense?

That MIDI bugs is horrible. It made transferring beats from other devices way more tedious than it should've been. There actually 2 bugs gonna on at the same time. 1 is the note off bug. The other bug I found was that even if the other track didn't have the overlapping notes the Force wouldn't record the MIDI seq data accurately unless only that one external track was playing. Which means that I had to record all 60 something beats from the MPC2500 1 at a time. Other devices don't have that 2nd bug.

It can play multiple external tracks at once. It's only when you try to record those tracks at once that the bug bites you. But after you record them into the Force it all good.

So you should be OK playing the 8 tracks on the external device, but the power of the Force comes from using its sequencer & macros to trigger & control the CC & PC messages of other devices. There's no getting around the fact that YOU will have to setup your own MIDI maps.once you see how deep the macro are you'll understand why that's the case.

Gotcha gotcha. Hopefully a new firmware update will resolve all that. I appreciate the feedback. Yea, I'm really just looking for a new piano key controller. Something with some nice mappable features. I'm fine with mapping things myself, just want a keyboard controller that plays nice. I'm glad I know about the bugs now and don't discover them later.