Softening punchy patterns

Alright, could someone please tell how to fully utilize the ZONE function for creating dope reconstructed breaks? Check this:

I have a drum break but since the pattern's boring (79.9 bpm), I wanted to zone the individual kicks and snares and recreate something a little doper (but still maintain the same bpm). I took two different approaches but both resulted in less than desireable breaks...

I first began by using the ZONE function, assigning the sounds to pads and trying to play the new break in real time while I had a sequence recording the sounds. For some reason, when I press PLAY the drum sounds play back at these really wacked out times and I don't get anything like the pattern I tried to lay down; it's more like a bunch of kicks and snares being played too close to each other, coupled with long stretches of silence between the sounds.

Discouraged but not totally out, I decided I would go the tedious route: I tried to manually construct my new pattern step by step by utilizing the INSERT SOUND function in the TRIM's edit menu. Basically, I started with the end of the new pattern (which would be a snare) and continuously added more ZONEd snares and kicks backwards until I more or less had the general pattern. (Like I said, it's a tedious method but at least, since it's in TRIM mode, your new break is highly edit-able.) The only problem with this is that, while the snares on the pattern sound fine, the kicks are extremely punchy and give the overall break a stutter-stop feel. I figured that I must be starting to ZONE the kicks too closely to their actual starting point and as remedy I began to chop a little before the kicks sounded (ie. there was a little leader of silence before the kicks began). However, even with this method the break still sounded un-natural.
*I should note that this aforementioned method works really good if you have an extended drum break (more than 4 bars) but if you're only working with a tight 2 bar break, that's when things get tricky.


I've heard other people's beats on this site and since there are some good examples of variations in drum patterns, I know that it's possible to get my drums to do the same type of natural-sounding pattern changes. Also, and I don't know if this helps, but all of my drums are from vinyl and not downloads, though I don't know if there's too much of a difference in chopping and reconstructing from these two sources.

Thanks

layer a few diff sounds over one another and scrap the zone function all together. i don't know many cats who actually use it. seems lazy to me.

one thing you can do to make it work a little better though is trim the snare to include the hi hat and then using the pitch adjustment, speed it or slow it to fit the tempo of your program. layer another snare on top of it and get the desired sound.

for kicks, utilize a couple layers. make sure they are trimmed similarly at the start, otherwise they'll cause some nasty sounds. from there, use the decay to make them trail off like a natural kick.

for the hi hats, using the attack and decay usually makes them sound much more lifelike.

good luck.

Thanks for the info Evil One. I want to see if I understand your advice but let me preface my reply by saying that prior to the MPC-2000XL that I bought approximately one month ago, for 4 years I used the totally under-powered Roland SP-202 to make beats. The 202 didn't have a sequencer and so when it came time to move from loops to pattern changes for drums, I had to cut a break into chunks and play in real time the pattern out while I had my four track recording what I was doing. Then, I would play back the drumming and when I found a loop among the recorded beats that was timed correctly, I would resample it back into the 202. This may seem backwards to the seasoned MPCers but that's what I had to do for pattern changes. For really varied drumming, I had to basically create a bunch of patterns, record each one in real time, and then after much trial and error, sample a loop that was timed correctly. I once got 8 patterns out of one drum break, put each pattern on a pad and played them out onto my beats—this was mad varied but the process took me like three weeks and at the time seemed like too much work. Also, since the SP-202 didn't have a sequencer, I am uneasy about using it on the MPC, although it seems that's where the real power for laying down drums is.

I’m at my job right now and so I can’t consult the MPC to check if what I’m about to write will work, but just check this out to see if it’s fundamentally solid:

1.) Start with the break, then isolate various parts (kick, snare, hi-hat) and copy them into their own sound files.
2.) Trim the sounds of any unwanted material.
3.) Open up a program, assign the sounds to the pads.
4.) For the high hat, set the attack and decay so that when you play it, there’s no clipping on the sample.
5.) For the kicks, set the decay so that it trails off naturally. I would guess since my previous efforts had punchy kicks, I would also need to set the attack too.
6.) For the snares, adjust attack and decay so they don’t end too abruptly.

Now here’s where I get lost… So I have all my sounds ready to go and the general idea I seemed to get from your reply is that, from the MAIN SCREEN, I’ll have to open a sequence and:

A.) Set the sequence tempo and loop up the closed hi-hat so that it sounds natural and lays the foundation for the drums
B.) pop in the kicks and snares in time with the hi-hat loop so that what I’m doing sounds natural

Is this more or less correct? I’ve used this method with the SP-202 on the O’Jay’s “Give The People What They Want” break (which opens with just closed hi hats). From a hi-hat loop, I then added in drum and kick sounds to make things sounds as natural as possible.

What I totally don’t know how to do is use a sequence to accomplish parts A and B above, utilizing pitch adjustment for tempo fitting of a snare (I don’t even know where I would use this). Also, what exactly is layering? I know it sounds like I’m a total rook but coming off four years on another totally different sampler makes learning the MPC-2000XL an experience that’s a little tougher than I expected.
Any help from you, Evil One, or anyone else is greatly appreciated.

you can use the zone funtion it will just take time to get the zone to "zone" right

remember to play with the attack and decay settings to get rid of clicks and to create a natural sounding beat, snare, hat etc.

now when you lay down the changes to the pattern remember to adjust the swing until it feels a little more natural.

this should end the "fall outs" caused by not zone or just use recycle (thats what I do)

try this recent thread:
http://www.mpc-tutor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3545

and this older tutorial:

http://www.mpc-tutor.com/tutorials/chopping.htm


Pete

http://www.mpc-tutor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3851

cheers
pete