Keyboard Recomendations...

^^^exactly.

There is No doubt you have to come original. But just because you use a analog keyboard doesnt mean your are. And just because you use a rompler doesnt mean your arent original.

Overall a rompler is more versityle, especially for hiphop......granted, a rompler isnt the end all answer to good sounding tracks, but it will get you closer to what you want and give you a good basis to start with, but still leave room for improvement and originality, and thats true even if you want to accomplish an analog ish sound. You have infinite sound set, and if the presets arent good enough, add some that are.

you can argue all day that you get warmer phatter sound, or whatever analog arguement you want to come with......well those areguements might very well be true- but the fact is, with a rompler like a triton or motif, you can add samples.

Youre an idiot if you just use presets........but youre also an idiot if you dont use good presets just because you dont want to use presets! think about it. some sounds are timeless. Some presets are good. Dont discriminate against good sounds just because they are presets.

Dont deny a good piece of equipment because of your perception of its image or its users.

DJAwethentic wrote:Also, someone mentioned racks...what is the deal with that? Is it a way of creating your own sounds, like anlog synths, etc., or just presets, or what? I looked up the few that were recomended, but I just don't even know what the hell they are, or how you would use one. Would I need to connect it to a keyboard, or to my laptop, or my MPC, and what do they do?
And, reading through some of the posts again, I'm not just trying to sound like every producer out there, or get famous fast. I mean it's dumb to say that you don't wanna get famous, because, obviously, most people would love to blow up and make it big. But, I just want to be able to make better beats and come up with cool, original ish...If I blow up in the process...word.

Thanks again to people hittin this post up...like I said, when it comes to all this hardware for producing, I'm pretty new, I've been confined to a computer for so long and I'm just starting to learn about all the different methods available to me.

I mentioned the racks because they save space. They are the same shioat thats in the synth or boards internal sound module but without the keys man. When using a rack setup its way easier to design your own sounds from scratch by mixing, blending, and eq'ing sounds from multiple rackmount modules to create completely new expressions since all of your sound sources are so easily accessible, and because they can be simultaneously triggered by one keyboard. The real benefit of hardware is real time control with a real interface, and the only disadvantages would be the space they take up and the cost.

As far as choosing which one(s) to buy.. its just the same as going to the record store and pickin up something because you like the way it sounds, but as a musician you will be also taking into account what you want to do with the sound and if the item of your interest can perform in the way you wish to use it in a way your comfortable working. So look at sound, interface, function, and the items os layout when looking into a module or keyboard, or any gear for that matter. Oh and read the manual before you even think of blowing your money. Know your weapon of choice inside and out even before you touch it so your drive stays fresh with no downtime. If you want to come up with original ish you gota choose wisely, have an intended sound and composition style.. so either use what everybody else uses in a different way or use something that nobody else uses. It is really up to your vision and how clearly you see it.

punkdISCO wrote:"it seems to be all the about the fame/cash/prestige than the actual enjoyment of artistic creation for too many cats in the genre"

Yep - good example was that recent thread along the lines of "if I dont make it within 3 years Im going to give away all my gear". Go figure! Where is the soul and passion in this argument? It is the equivalent of saying "if my children dont learn to ride a bike by 3 Im going to give them away". Your children will always be yours and you will always love them no matter what they do. If this is not the case then you should not have had them in the first place. Ditto with your music..

Paul

I know what your sayin man. I blame the commercially crazed and brainwashed sheep, glam rap.. which reminds me glam rock but for another culture (completely fabricated nonsense), bling rap, MTV!!!, the over commercialization of music, over amped male egos, insecure people who are afraid or dont know how to express themselves so they look to emulate others to be accepted, the media in general, money, and the whole commercially produced wanabee generation that just keeps gettin bigger everyday. I live in a predominantly white suburban area and im sick as hell of seeing hordes of suburban well off white people (wiggers as people call them), blastin commercially manufactured rap and taking on personas that dont reflect who they are before they started fakin in the slightest way. Besides, half the shit their listening to are lies and bullshit that these manufactured puppets are saying just to glamorize an image or lifestyle that they dont even live. I guess people like living off manufactured sh!t and kids love eating it because they wish they could live some fictitious life style too. I would much rather stay poor as hell and never blow up, because I know the hard times are a constant reminder of why I stay true to what it do.

Inovate now before its to late to save your true creativite form and potential.

i wish i would have bought the rack versions of my boards. Space is now becoming an issue.

usually the keyboard version is more user friendly, but if you put the time into it, its the same stuff.

dont forget to think about space.

"When using a rack setup its way easier to design your own sounds from scratch by mixing, blending, and eq'ing sounds from multiple rackmount modules to create completely new expressions since all of your sound sources are so easily accessible, and because they can be simultaneously triggered by one keyboard."

So even if you got a ton of racks, to make your own sounds and samples, you still need a keyboard to play those sounds. So what people have been saying in response to my first post is that just get a basic keyboard to trigger sounds - whether the sounds happen to be from a bunch of racks or on a computer program to generate samples. You don't need a crazy keyboard to have a cheap way out of having samples and using presets and what not...

I'm sorry I keep dwelling on this issue because I am slow...but it makes sense now, I think.

And word to everything else you said Threshed...

If your not all to fast dont trip man. We know you want to be sure before you lay down your cash. To better understand all this you should look at some instructional images like the midi set up pages in the mpc manuals and take time to figure out how andy why it works. It should help solidify what I was saying about trigering and what not. Also read up on some basic midi info about channels and master and slave. You will get there. Dont sweat. Everybody here went through the same...

"the funny thng is euro techno dudes who think theyre better than "hip hop guys (lame) " cause they use a Virus or a Nord, get outta here mang. dont be quick to lump everyone up."

I think the 'Euro Techno dudes' were singing the praises of analogue synths which as you know, this does not include the Virus or Nord synths.

Im not 'into' Hip Hop but I appreciate a ground breaking hot track when I hear one. There is some incredible Hip Hop out - being such a huge phenomena clearly there is going to be some great stuff made but my point is, the great tracks are made by people who think outside of the box. I think it was Cyrus who was saying that a person can think outside of the box and it does not matter about the hardware. Agreed 100% but it also helps moving away from what everyone else is using.

"So even if you got a ton of racks, to make your own sounds and samples, you still need a keyboard to play those sounds. So what people have been saying in response to my first post is that just get a basic keyboard to trigger sounds - whether the sounds happen to be from a bunch of racks or on a computer program to generate samples"

For sure dude.. From a long time I jest had one of these:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/10730?source= ... k&ad=10730

for triggering my Midi stuff. Battery powered and I would just stick it up against a wall when not using. And they cost **** all.

Not sure if the cost has been covered but you will also save money by getting racks as you are not paying for another keyboard each time.

Good luck dude..

Paul

2 words:

KORG OASYS

I hear you PunkDisco, but part of our musicianship is that we are synthesists. We take pride in the sounds we make and use, where as most hip hop producers using tritons, motif's etc. are just scrolling through presets until they hit something that works. Wait until the motif is a few years old and you'll hear them hit the wall and use the wack ones they scrolled over. It's why reason and refills are so popular. I lost all respect for the beastie Boys when I hear Reason presets in their to the 5 burroughs, which is a large part of why it sucked.

Anyhow, in terms of hip hop I find the hardcore samplists are the ones who really care about their sound and take as much care as any synthesist in getting things sounding unique.They are the ones who tend to go after analog synths or something that lets them define the sounds, rather than stack of presets that anyone with the keyboard has.

but! You really summed it up here:

Reading between the lines I get the impression that a considerable % of the people in hear are not into the music but rather they are into the glam image of stardom. The very fact that someone is a 'Producer' from day one lends light onto what is the goal here.. And I think this accounts for the whole Mofit/quick fix thing - 'I dont care about artistic integrity, I just want something that is going to get me famous fast'. Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with Mofits etc (not my thing but hey..) its just the complete reliance on them that I question

Absolutely. There is a producer fad in hip hop, and people all want shortcuts. Just look at ebay at all the "Just Blaze Drums" auctions, it's access to a whole lot of sounds for them to pice together. much like when ACID came out and everybody was layering prepared loops into songs and saying "I made that" or getting rebirth and using the preset patterns, something which is beyond my comprehention until you realize some people just want to say they are and get the money, but don;t really enjoy the process or want to dedicate the time to understand what they have.

getting a motif or whatever and really getting inside it and learning how to manipulate sounds and create your own things on it is a long tedius process, but no doubt rewarding, but few are going to go deeper than tweaking the cutoff on a preset or two.

So when people ask about analog synths here, I am generally skeptical and don;t waste my time answering them because if they really were interested they would google more info than I can tell them here. I try not to let it become part of the fad because it's just not very fad friendly, if they don;t want to program, the probably don;t want to deal witn a repair or tuning. Most cats wanting analog are just trying to get something they perceive as no other hip hop producers having or using, becoming original in what they own rather in their use of what they already have.

In Short, I feel your pain

I think what you people on high horses dont realize, is in hip hop music, we need presets, we need guitars, flutes, real instruments to embelish samples etc. So why get a Oberheim or a Moog, when we can get a Triton Studio or Motif which get the realistic sounds, plus samplers, so if we need a buzzing saw bass, we can pop a sample in it and call it a day. It would be dumb to go analog for the sake of being analog. I rather spend my time learning music theory and developing new melodies and chords then wasting my time on having the rarest analog synth.

KoolSha178 wrote:I think what you people on high horses dont realize, is in hip hop music, we need presets, we need guitars, flutes, real instruments to embelish samples etc. So why get a Oberheim or a Moog, when we can get a Triton Studio or Motif which get the realistic sounds, plus samplers, so if we need a buzzing saw bass, we can pop a sample in it and call it a day. It would be dumb to go analog for the sake of being analog. I rather spend my time learning music theory and developing new melodies and chords then wasting my time on having the rarest analog synth.

So VERY true!!!!

Hi Dude

"I rather spend my time learning music theory and developing new melodies and chords then wasting my time on having the rarest analog synth."

This is interesting.. We both have the same goals but different approaches.. I surround myself with old analogue gear "because" I dont want to waste my time trying to get a Mofit to sound good. It takes no effort to get a cool sound out of a Minimoog etc but you have to work hard elsewhere.

Im lazy so my synths have to do my job for me and thats why I love quirky gear..

btw, Im not anti-digital and to prove it: My latest addition is digital (well, semi!) Just got a Evolver and it is fun fun fun... Problem is I now want a Evolver Keyboard thingy and this expensive!

See you,

Paul

KoolSha178 wrote:I think what you people on high horses dont realize, is in hip hop music, we need presets, we need guitars, flutes, real instruments to embelish samples etc. So why get a Oberheim or a Moog, when we can get a Triton Studio or Motif which get the realistic sounds, plus samplers, so if we need a buzzing saw bass, we can pop a sample in it and call it a day. It would be dumb to go analog for the sake of being analog. I rather spend my time learning music theory and developing new melodies and chords then wasting my time on having the rarest analog synth.

yup.

u know i don't really understand why people r so against presets. these r the same people that take those same presets and turn a few knobs and think that they put in the work. i never heard anyone say damn a fender rhodes is just an electric piano with 1 preset so all that use it r weak or damn that grand piano is hudreds of years old the sound is played out.

i can program any synth with the exception of a ppg and any yamaha fm based synth, but i use presets a lot. i have built synths in reaktor 3 and 4. there is not one of my tracks where u could say he used preset # such and such. even if u could u would be so hypnotized by the track and the skill of my playing u wouldn't even care.

how about we talk about all the peole with 30 keyboards and can't play for ish. they r so sound reliant that if u put a simple piano patch up they couldn't play u nada. give me any sound and u will have a banger as the end result.

even companies know that people want bangin presets or their new synths won't sell. all these companies r now putting 1000 plus in their boards. saying that presets r bad is like saying that a person has cook every meal for themselves and never eat out.

with all of this being said these r the essentials for a producer/beatmaker
1. learn how to play the piano
2. get 1 keyboard with a lot of knobs on it to learn how to tweak and what each one does
3. once u have learned the basics then u can get 30 keboards, use presets, tweak or do whatever

and even if u never tweak or make a sound at least u will be able to play keys for real

It's sounds like Cyrus is saying to get both analog and rompler, can't beat that right? it just depends on the sound you want, all these instruments are tools in to work with, so learn how to use your tools and don't limit yourself