For all the cats who dont dig/advocate buying crap recrods

jpeg wrote:Some say that DJ shadows goes thru alot of trouble to make elevator music.

I kinda agree

thats dumb. Bob James is elevator music, Shadow makes some beautiful sh!t

as for this topic heres my two cents. If you cats are making hip hop and dont dig then shame on you. I cant speak for electro-jungle-techno heads cause I simply dont dig that stuff. But if you consider yourself a hip hop producer and only use keyboard, factory, or sample pack sounds then youre wack. Get off your lazy ass and go dig through some records. Find some samples then chop and tweak them till theyre unrecognizable. Our ears will thank you. As for the guy who said "we're probably all digging through the same records" You should come diggin with me, or even better come see my stacks, theres still millions of untouched gems to tweak. Its up to the digger to decide what lengths to go to find the untampered with heat. I go all out sometimes, doing research on musicians that worked with so and so then went off and did other records with other people. I like to dig through foriegn stuff, especially progressive stuff from the 70s. I even listen to stuff I dont/ wouldnt sample for various reasons cause when Im diggin to me its like music class except the teacher is on wax. and I agree with cyruss, if you cats are just trying to sound like everyone else you are garbage and should just quit now.

For those who swear by vinyl sampling, and think the rest of us are slacking because we don't..... Remember that somebody actually PLAYED the sh#t that you're sampling. Someone actually created that sh#t from scratch with instruments, keyboards and all kind of sh#t. Not to say that sampling isn't dope (cause I do it often). But It's just really strange to me that cats who create music from scratch seem to get less respect...It really is odd.

^^ I agree with that statement partially, and I don't knock anyone on that keyboard module tip, but I make music with records cause that's how hip hop started and I want to continue in the same vane creating off of records, cause I been a record collector for a while and sampling is just my thing, I like it and enjoy record collecting and sampling/chopping/manipulating. But keyboards are good to experiment, but not for nothing the guys you hear playing on a record, if you hear a violin it's a guy playing a violin, not a dude with a triton playing a violin sound, I look at it like making records off of samples from vinyl is making it from scratch cause the sampler does't have any internal sounds at it's disposal and you have to create the sounds, the keyboards have every instrument prerecorded onto them and I just don't see it as making music from scratch. I am not knocking it, I am just presenting my opinion the way I look at it, I am looking into doing some keyboard experimentation myself but sampling is the blueprint in which most of us choose to build from.

average wrote:For those who swear by vinyl sampling, and think the rest of us are slacking because we don't..... Remember that somebody actually PLAYED the sh#t that you're sampling. Someone actually created that sh#t from scratch with instruments, keyboards and all kind of sh#t. Not to say that sampling isn't dope (cause I do it often). But It's just really strange to me that cats who create music from scratch seem to get less respect...It really is odd.

dude, synths contain samples, its just more planned out, and a hired musician plays specific notes. If you really utalize your sampler, you can treat it just like a synth, except your options are more open, limitiless sounds you can feed it, it really just depends on how you use it.

There is more to sampling vinyl than just ganking someones music, actually, it has nothing to do with stealing what so and so "composed." Its about a feeling or vibe, characteristic, and timbre of a sound, that inspires the producer to create somthing. You probably look for the same thing in your keyboard when you start making beats. When i sample, i actually hate the fact that people think im "stealing" cause im not, i dont take peoples whole melodies, or go the p diddy route(not knockin him thats his thing) I look for a sound that inspires, a sound that is begging to be taken to a hiphop beat. Those sounds where not intended originally to be formed and shapped by me, but sittin on that piece of vinyl for 30 years, they beg to be used!!!! seriously man, id like to see the sample haters go and do what pete rock, dj shadow, rza, domino, or any other good samplerist can do, theyd think twice if they actually tried!!!!!

peace
peace out.

^^ Damn. That sh*t is on point....

Well said.

average wrote:For those who swear by vinyl sampling, and think the rest of us are slacking because we don't..... Remember that somebody actually PLAYED the sh#t that you're sampling. Someone actually created that sh#t from scratch with instruments, keyboards and all kind of sh#t. Not to say that sampling isn't dope (cause I do it often). But It's just really strange to me that cats who create music from scratch seem to get less respect...It really is odd.

I agree. I didnt mean to call out keyboardists like that. If you can play instruments well then Im all for it. Nothing more organic than live instrumentation. and no shit someone played the samples, thats the whole point! I love sampling because it gives us the ability to sample instruments we dont know how to play. I cant play a violin, bassoon, and guitar but I can sample them and make em sound like they all belong together over a chopped drum break without years of practicing and perfecting how to play each of the instruments. And thats kindve the spirit of hip hop. No one taught me how to use the mpc or look for certain types of sounds on old songs, its self taught, after a while you just begin to know what to look for. Not like the piano/whatever player who spends years taking lessons, practicing and learning music theory, you just use your ears and make some ish that makes your head bob.

sorry

sorry computer lagged out, and I double posted.

Pore wrote:I agree. I didnt mean to call out keyboardists like that. If you can play instruments well then Im all for it. Nothing more organic than live instrumentation. and no **** someone played the samples, thats the whole point! I love sampling because it gives us the ability to sample instruments we dont know how to play. I cant play a violin, bassoon, and guitar but I can sample them and make em sound like they all belong together over a chopped drum break without years of practicing and perfecting how to play each of the instruments. And thats kindve the spirit of hip hop. No one taught me how to use the mpc or look for certain types of sounds on old songs, its self taught, after a while you just begin to know what to look for. Not like the piano/whatever player who spends years taking lessons, practicing and learning music theory, you just use your ears and make some ish that makes your head bob.

An idea i found from that sampling thesis posted previously on this forum, its so true, ive read just about the entire thesis (because i wanted to understand further sampling, how to explain it to others, what i actually thought, etc.) because I use to think that sampling was cheating(when i first started, like 4 years ago), but My perception, and definition of what sampling actually is, was misconstrued and mis percieved.

"my sense is that this is due to the compositional elements that come with even the smallest sample, whether that be a sense of harmonic orientation, a rhythmic feel, or a timbral (or even social) "vibe". The less constrained nature of live instruments-(they could play anything)-actually makes them less valuable, because there is no sensibility, no musical clue, for the produer to work with. Essentially, what im arguing is that a sample of a chord played by jazz guitarist Grant Green, for example,can suggest a feel to a producer, which it is then their task to develop into a song. A guirtar itself, by contrast, suggests nothing."

agreed average...i like smapling from vinyl but i also love groups who can create stuff which sounds dirty and 'sampled' bit like BOC etc...
greg

there shouldnt be a war between samplers and keyboards.

a sampler has zero sounds on it, so your beat is literally from the ground up.

a keybaord has your sounds there, but you cant obtain a melody from elsewhere so you need the skills to play the melodies yourself.

to each his own.

all of my favorite producers are sample based. every single one of em.
its just my personal preference. i feel its a different way of looking at creating music. you look at composition in a different way. its about sounds that strike a chord in you (no pun intended). its about a feeling. you want your track to feel a certain way.
i use my sampler as a keyboard in a lot of ways. from doing basslines off of 2 notes sampled, finding the key of the sample and tuning two notes to create a proper scale. filtering and reversing, chopping, speeding up or slowing down. i just feel that its a totally different way at creating music.

my boy is an amazing piano player, hes into dream theater, and alot of film and soundtrack composers. huge on danny elfman. he can create an amazing piano composition thats about 6 minutes long. i could sample just a few notes of his 6 minute composition, do my thing, and make something totally new out of just a few sounds borrowed from his composition. so whats better? preference. from a technical standpoint his may be more intricate but mine may make you feel different. i think it is definately creative to take just a few sounds and make an engaging composition. its just a different kind of skill and a different goal. i will never drop my sampler, i rather just apply thoery to my sampler and rock it like that.

I'm feeling all y'all responses, though I think some missed the point. I sample just as much as the next man. I'm just saying I don't see either "keyboard tracks", or sample based tracks being better or worse than the other. And I'm just sticking up for the "keyboard" guys cause I'm one of them too, and they seem to take a lot of unwarranted abuse. It's all good though. I'm bout to go make me a fire a$$ keyboard beat!