What to run audio through before sampling

Hi all,

I have noticed in quite a few interviews and pictures with producers that a few of them mention boxes (pre-amps I believe) that they sample their records through before you sample into the MPC.

A lot of the time they mention these adding warmth to the recordings etc. And one of the popular names that pops up is Avalon.

My question here is - what are these rack boxes and do they make a difference when sampling vinyl or other audio sources into the MPC / Computer - or are they only really for vocals?

Most of the pre-amps I have looked up seem like they are for Microphones so I may be completely missing the boat here and thinking it adds warmth to drum breaks and samples!

Thanks a lot and sorry for the vague newbie question!

N

you might be thinking of a phono preamp when talking vinyl.. on most old turntables you can't just run it right into the line input on an mpc because there is no preamp. DJ mixers tend to have phono inputs (with the preamp built in) so that fixes that...


essentially, you need phono out to turn into line out on the record player... which is what mpcs and most other samplers require.

Thanks. I understand the phono pre-amp and have that all sorted - but was just wondering the merits of running audio through something like an Avalon before going into the MPC for adding warmth to breaks, samples etc.

i've heard some people doing stuff like that... never tried it. I don't know what that would do exactly.... it would probably add some bad-assery to the sound though... but at a cost.

Maybe look into some analog filter type stuff instead.. that would add some more flexibility and utility.

the more dialed in your sound is before recording the better. that's less post-pro shit you have to worry about. get your signal right on the way in.

honestly, i would just record your samples in and effect it later if you wanted. going through something like that avalon 737, might make it sound a bit different, but honestly what the listener hears is the music that is being sampled, not the sound of the music being sampled.
that is not to say that sometimes something sounds really good when its run though something to give it grit or shine or whatever, but like you said before, these pre-amps you are talking about are really suited for vocals and instruments when recording a band, or vocals or whatever.
if your just recording something into your mpc to make a beat with, if the sample is dope and you know what to do with it, then the beat will be dope.

i wouldnt dream of dropping close to 1500 or 2k on an avalon 737 just to run my samples through, its un needed.
if you want a certain sonic character, maybe an older sampler would be where you money might be better spent.

i have learned that when making beats, tracking them out inside my mpc, versus tracking them out in my old shitty m-audio interface, it really makes no difference, because what you are listening for is the music.
on the other hand, when i would record my vocals, it made a night and day difference going strait into my m-audio firewire 410 interface, and going through a nice mic pre then into my 410. thats really what these things are built for.

i guess my main point is, a mic-pre isnt the best way to effect your sound if your just making beats, it might change it, but you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference between something recorded strait onto your interface and something run though a mic pre when tracking your beat out.
if you really want to do something cool to your sound, add filters or effects to it during the creative stage, get a different sampler that has a sound you like, or get a little dj mixer that has an eq on it. that will enable you to sample in with different eq's and it will be drastically more noticeable than running it though an expensive pre.

hope that helps man!

damien907 wrote:
i guess my main point is, a mic-pre isnt the best way to effect your sound if your just making beats, it might change it, but you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference between something recorded strait onto your interface and something run though a mic pre when tracking your beat out.
if you really want to do something cool to your sound, add filters or effects to it during the creative stage, get a different sampler that has a sound you like, or get a little dj mixer that has an eq on it. that will enable you to sample in with different eq's and it will be drastically more noticeable than running it though an expensive pre.

hope that helps man!

Truth.

i was just thinking about this too, dont these preamps reduce alot of the pops and other stuff going on in the record and bring out the sexiness?

i would be interested in hearing from people that actually KNOW about this trick and have used preamps in their sampling.

Medisin wrote:dont these preamps reduce alot of the pops and other stuff going on in the record and bring out the sexiness?

No.

A phono preamp makes the signal being output from the turntable louder, so that it can be plugged into a line level input of other equipment.

It also applies a de-emphasis EQ curve, to undo the RIAA pre-emphasis EQ curve that is applied to the audio signal when being cut to vinyl.

Medisin wrote:i would be interested in hearing from people that actually KNOW about this trick and have used preamps in their sampling.

It isn't any sort of trick.

Pretty much everyone who has sampled from vinyl has used phono preamps in their sampling.

im talking about AFTER the phono preamp, if it can be run through a MIC preamp.

just like vocals are processed thru preamps could the turntable be ran through it.

has anyone ever tried this?

I imagine u mean a line preamp as opposed to mic preamp but I'm splitting hairs, I get u. Can u get a higher end preamp to run ure TT thru, sure u can, will it reduce some noise yah, do I think its worth spending a couple grand on a high quality line preamp when the rest of the chain may b crap , no I don't. There's a lot u can do to improve ure chain from turntable to sampler. There's a lot of info out there, with about as many opinions, it all starts with ure TT, cartridge, needle, phono preamp, proper alignment etc, etc. All in all I personally don't think buying an expensive line preamp is going to b a huge difference maker. But that's an opinion ill tell u I have never made an a to b analysis. I just strongly believe that the preamp will not make a big difference if u have a 100 dollar usb turntable with a ceramic cart and a dj mixer preamp running into it. Now on the other hand if u ve spent like 2 or3 grand on ure TT signal chain and r still not satisfied mayb it is a good idea.

They do make line preamps but not many companies making them. Find one and grab it because you'll never see it again.

I have a Gemini PA7000 and its my bread and butter when sampling. PA actually stands for PreAmp, so don't sleep. Its got cut and boost and a 3 band EQ and I can hook up to 4 devices to sample from without pulling out jacks. Its convient just to hit the selector switch.

When on the road or far from home, I just use a conventional EQ or the BOSS SP-303 for amping up samples. 303 is my favorite because of its many effects you can add on while sampling.

Great alternative to an SP-303 would be the ZOOM R8 and that has 100 effects and timestretch is the best.

Unless you have a Neve 1073 Mic pre or something that REALLY colours the sound in a GOOD way, you don't really need it.

the trick is to take your line level signal from your Phono amp or dj mixer, patch it into a DI (JDI works best) that will convert line level to mic level, then take the output of the DI and plug it into the Mic Pre input. The reason you plug into the mic input instead of the line input depends on how the mic pre is built. for example, a Neve mic pre has Jensen transformers on the mic input stage, and not in the line input. the transformers add a very nice colour to the sound, especially if you drive the input a bit. Also the EQ on the 1073 is a big part of its sound. Snare drums sound incredible with them.

Neve mic press can cost up to 6k per channel for a vintage one, which is out of most bedroom producers budgets.. but a few cheaper alternates are out there.

API 512c mic pres are about 1300 with a lunchbox enclosure, same with the Avedis Audio MA5 (similar to a neve). Also i think you can get a Neve 1073 (Mic pre only) in the 500 series format for a similar price used.

if your really on a budget you could try out the Golden Age pre73.. although I've never heard one. they are "based" on the 1073 sound. even one of the ART tube pre units, which are pretty cheap, will colour the sound, sometimes good, sometimes not so good..

I wouldn't say that the Avalon is NOT the most coloured Mic pre although it does have a smooth sound to it especially with lots of its compressor stage.

do not spend 2g's on a pre amp for vocals to run your samples through... plain and simple... All you are doing is running it through clean (potentially warm) preamps. Just buy an AMP sim plugin and run it though that if your looking for a specific sound. If you want some good sonic characteristics go buy yourself an old sampler and sample it into that.