Dre's Hi-Hat?

A buddy passed this trick onto me, but I wanna know if my ears are deceiving me. Apparently, Dr. Dre and others use a trick with the hit hat that includes the following:

Think Mary J Blige's "Family Affair", which Dre produced...

Hi hat pattern

Beat: 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and

Hi Hat: X x X x X x X x

On the upbeats ONLY - the "ands" (x) - shift the timing AHEAD (yes, AHEAD meaning EARLIER) one tick. This requires programming the downbeats ( 1 2 3 4) on one track and the "ands" on another. If you are programming double resolution, shift two ticks. Apparently, this gives the beat a more "anxious" or realistic feel...a groove. I noticed a difference. Does anyone else?

"On the upbeats ONLY - the "ands" (x) - shift the timing AHEAD (yes, AHEAD!) one tick."

Dude, this is not a Dre thing - this is how drummers play! Checkout the Groove templates in apps like Cubase and Logic etc. They come with dozens of Grooves and there will always be several 'rushed' templates. The templates can even be applied to audio these days, not just midi..

I always get confused with the terminology on this one. I understand how to get 'anxious' or relaxed but not what to call it But yeah, if you play the off beats slightly too early for your hats and usually the snare (is that called 'ahead'?) then it gives the impression that the hats and snare are pushing the beat along - the result is that the beat will sound slightly faster than the actual tempo.

The opposite of this is also true - playing the off beat slightly too late will give you a very relaxed groove..

Paul

punkdISCO wrote:"Dude, this is not a Dre thing - this is how drummers play!

PD, I appreciate the clarification. I'm not a drummer, but this trick sounds more realistic to me...it's changed the overall feel of my beats. In this case, shifting ahead means shifting EARLIER one tick (or two ticks, if you program using double resolution)

Most people always gloss over this little trick, but it's actually a subtle, but very well-kept secret in certain circles. R. Kelly's programmer does it all the time. I swear by it. Most people think the hi-hat that falls on the upbeat is delayed a few ticks, in order to imitate a real drummer. It's actually rushed earlier by a tick or two.

It's a small thing, but it makes a big diff. Gives the track the illusion that the tempo is moving faster than it really is.

Yeah I've been doing this since I first firgured out how to EVENT EDIT on my ASR10 in 1994.

what is it y'all call a "tick" ?

would that be 1 ppq for a 96 ppq machine such as an MPC 2000XL ?

whaddit do wrote:

punkdISCO wrote:"Dude, this is not a Dre thing - this is how drummers play!

PD, I appreciate the clarification. I'm not a drummer, but this trick sounds more realistic to me...it's changed the overall feel of my beats. In this case, shifting ahead means shifting EARLIER one tick (or two ticks, if you program using double resolution)

plus. you can change the velocity too. Make the downbeats lower then the upbeats and you will get a more "breathing" feel. Something like track 1 = 127 and track 2 = 90. try it at the extremes to get a feel of what sounds good.

also experiment with reverb and delays and you got some nice hihats. Sometimes just subtle amounts can do wonders to add some atmosphere to those dry hats.

Push your snare on the 4 forward two ticks for the real funk!

But if you want to imitate a real drummer, its a lot more complex then pulling your downbeats.

what is it y'all call a "tick" ?

would that be 1 ppq for a 96 ppq machine such as an MPC 2000XL ?

BBoy2005 wrote:what is it y'all call a "tick" ?

would that be 1 ppq for a 96 ppq machine such as an MPC 2000XL ?

yep

thanks Cheech

ariesmale1 wrote:Most people always gloss over this little trick, but it's actually a subtle, but very well-kept secret in certain circles. R. Kelly's programmer does it all the time. I swear by it. Most people think the hi-hat that falls on the upbeat is delayed a few ticks, in order to imitate a real drummer. It's actually rushed earlier by a tick or two.

It's a small thing, but it makes a big diff. Gives the track the illusion that the tempo is moving faster than it really is.

R Kelly doesn't program his drums himself?


Anyways, maybe Dre is playin the drums out live, just not quantizing?

Dos wrote:Push your snare on the 4 forward two ticks for the real funk!
But if you want to imitate a real drummer, its a lot more complex then pulling your downbeats.

OK, but how about this! Pulling your snare BACK (earlier) a tick or two. I know it sounds wacky, but for some reason, it works. Try it.

ariesmale1 wrote:OK, but how about this! Pulling your snare BACK (earlier) a tick or two. I know it sounds wacky, but for some reason, it works. Try it.

This early snare thing is a weird feel.
It's sort of in line with some of those D'Angelo, Jay Dee, Madlib beats.
A guy I know calls it the 'triangle wheels' beats.......because the groove sounds lumpy and awkward.
I would never instruct a drummer to play that way, but some of the guys I mentioned manage to make this fuuked up feel work in their programming.

itchyvinyl wrote:This early snare thing is a weird feel.

LOL...I totally agree, Itchy. It's odd. It kinda reminds me of Teddy Riley's stuff, which had a unique "push and pull", but it grooved. From what I've been hearing, quite a few guys shift their snare early along with the early hi hat. One of the reasons R. Kelly can get away with an incredibly slow tempo is because the early snare adds tension and a sense of movement to the track, so it doesn't drag. It's an interesting move.

I'm going out on a limb here (and I know I'll get hammered for it), but would it be crazy to think that MAYBE Premier's snare is early rather than late, giving it that unique swing?