whats the secret??

i've been watching these beat making vids and all the ones i've watch'd all of them they only show you how to make a beat, thats the easy part,

i've made some beats like that ,that sound fire when your just putting sounds together like that. what they don't show is how they take that beat and sequence it out to make a song out of it , there's the real secert they don't ever want to show that,sequencing is the key to making a hit fire record,

like i said i've done some dope ass beats on the first sequence, but when it come down to sequencein it out that changes the hole thing, am i wrong or is this not the secret to beat making, and thats why these cats don't show how to sequence out tracks cause thats there talent , it's not really about puttin sounds over sounds(layering) it about the sequenceing in the song that makes it hot.

what do you guy's think , is this the secret to making a hiphop or any beat for that matter.
sequencing was really not that big till the 80's thats when i remeber hearing about this sequencing thing,
yeah my sequencing is not the greatest but i'm working on it and trying to figure out what makes for good sequencing,,


give some thoughts on this or some tips on sequncing ,

peace

i think those vids are just to get folks started with making the beats. sequencing can be learned after you learn the basics. but sequencing is important for making a beat into a song. dosnt seem like there's much to it as far as laying the sequences out. but a person would have to know what the different change ups should sound like.

the hook, then into the verse...back to a hook, then maybe a bridge and back into a verse...etc..

but if you dont know how to really change it up you might run into some problems..

Secret? What secret?

Many would probably agree that the secret lies in chopping samples and arranging them to make something dope. It's like putting together a puzzle.

If you're a good producer you're already thinking many moves ahead. Sequencing/arranging should be second nature to you. It's all about putting together the individual sequences in an order that you pictured in your head.

There's no secret. Some are better visionaries than others in terms of how things should be laid out but it's no secret.

maybe thats my problem then that i'm not hearing a premade beat in my head i just pick samples and go from there, and i listen to it as i sequnce it out and decide from there if i go to a change up or break.

yeah see they dont show him getting the sources. Like they showed him just sampling the loop he wanted, but they didnt show him getting the drums, strings, or basslines. These are the things that take time to get right. Once you have all the sources then seq should be real simple. Thats the way i do shit at least. I will sample like 3 loops, throw them into live 4, then find the right drums, variations, basslines, all through there. then i chop up and seq reasons samplers with the mpc. the beat is like a rough draft in ableton though. Its allready been done, just using the mpc to really fine tune programming wise.

dj e.d.e wrote:what they don't show is how they take that beat and sequence it out to make a song out of it , there's the real secert they don't ever want to show that,sequencing is the key to making a hit fire record,

I think that's a real good point.
That's an area that people don't talk about much, and I haven't heard people offer much insight on.
....how to get yourself from a good loop to a good song.

dj e.d.e wrote:maybe thats my problem then that i'm not hearing a premade beat in my head i just pick samples and go from there, and i listen to it as i sequnce it out and decide from there if i go to a change up or break.

That's how I do too. 99% of the time I don't know what I'm gonna do when I turn on my equipment. It can be the luck of the draw, sometimes I'm done in 3-5 hours and sometimes it takes days.

u jus need to find your own winning formula

the only way you can do this is practice

over and over till u understand what works and where it works

check other peoples arrangements too but dont completely bite em

all good methods and i do these believe it or not , i have read thread on this from when this forum first started but , i can't seem to get that sequence thing or maybe my melodies still need fine tuning,

i practice day in day out but i can't seem to find the sound that i'm hearing once i get going can it be thAt i dont sample vocals snipets to help carry the song, all my productions are instrumental but they sound plane jane till i drop a acape or some scratch over it.
also can it be that using2 bar sequences and can make it sound not so vibrent.

thanks again for the help fellas

What you are talking about ede is not sequencing it is called song structure. The MPC's song mode taught me about song structure. just lay copied patterns out and make changes and you'll see what parts need varation and what needs to happen when. Starting with a basic 8/16/8/16/8 will get you started. Then make changes to each to make the emotion of the song vary as it goes.

This to me is the best challenge and where my head is at most of the time. The right arrangement really makes things better,

elmacaco isn't that concidered sequencing?. thats what i use to make my song's or beats, is song mode; but your right maybe i need to find different varations to my sequences so they sound more musical then just so repetative.

well does any one know or seen a video with this type of tutorial or prehapps a book that can explain this more , or is this part of music theory.

Make a template for your songs once you have a general idea of where you want to take it after you get your first basic sequence together. I have found that this is the best point to write as much as you can down in the form of a template and notes, because its when the sound first touches you and your vision is at its best, living and thriving. Once I get the shape of the track writen out and what I want to do where, I find all of the additional sounds I need to complete the other unmade sequences in the template. Then create sequences based on their part and also keep in mind what part of the song your making when you create your first sequence. Remember your song is constructed to make a sustained or transitional vibe so its layout should inbody just that, and the rest is up to your creativity and the implementation of your sounds. Puzzle fuking.

One way of thinking about it that realy helps me is a fractal type logic. I think about the song and parts of it as thier larger or smaller counter parts. These parts being (In order of largest to smallest)

the song,

a sequence of bars that define a compositional segment of the song,

the sequence within a bar,

and finaly the note itself.

So think of each of these parts as their smaller or larger counterparts, to simplify and better define their function.




A couple other ways that are helpfull are:

Creating a song from the intro on out.

Basing your song on the template of another.

Basing your song on a segment of a good mix where two songs are both vividly aparent in their sound and function.

Writing down the best compositional parts of your favorite songs and describing their function in tracks. And then seeing how you can put them together in the form of a new song.

Transpose the composition of a song you have already made.



Well I hope this helps you out. Thanks for posting this. It helped me better define my logic.

dj e.d.e wrote:elmacaco isn't that concidered sequencing?. thats what i use to make my song's or beats, is song mode; but your right maybe i need to find different varations to my sequences so they sound more musical then just so repetative.

well does any one know or seen a video with this type of tutorial or prehapps a book that can explain this more , or is this part of music theory.

I haven't see these videos, but Ive studied kraftwerk for their sequencing. Its really all you need to know. If youbreak down their patterns mathematically, youll see some amazing ideas.

Sequencing is a broad term, I heard a white house reporter ask about the sequencing of the talks with N. Korea.

yes, but if you search for sequencing you'll find a lot about midi. You are sequening patterns in that you are putting them in a certain order, but the terminology is incorrect. It is called pattern chaining in most sequencers and when people talk about sequencers, but what you are asking about is really song structure. Google it and you'll see.

listen to a record you like, count out the bars before you hear a major change, then a minor change, do it for different genres. An Ill loopd pattern is the basis of a lot of hip hop, but messing with variations doesn't mean you're adding hooks. If you have an MC over it then he can build the variation, but it is good if you take the song somewhere with variations.

Writing down the best compositional parts of your favorite songs and describing their function in tracks. And then seeing how you can put them together in the form of a new song.

i think i get your point it sounds like that involes choppin as some one above said , choppin and arranging them to your likings ;right?

Make a template for your songs once you have a general idea of where you want to take it after you get your first basic sequence together.

when you say template you mean like verse, chorus,hook so on as some one mention that .

Once I get the shape of the track writen out and what I want to do where, I find all of the additional sounds I need to complete the other unmade sequences in the template.

ok i do this but when you do it do you do it from the same song you sampled the first part from or do you look for another sound from a different song, i try to keep my sounds different so it dont sound like the original song i sampled from, you kno, maybe thats what i need to do is try sampling different sounds from the same song.


threshed thhank you for your technique and the others aswell thats what were here for to share the kknowledge that we know when we can right.
i appreciate it fellas.

i got to fix my printer to print this thread out....

peace