Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
By Chisel Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:40 pm
Okay, so I've got a beat playing on the MPC1000. All the levels are adjusted in the MPC mixer. The kick is thumpin', the snare is snappin', and the hi-hats are clean but not too loud.

So now I go to track this beat into my DAW. But since I already adjusted the levels in the MPC, the tracks are not "hot" enough coming into the DAW's mixer and I end up with lots of noise.

Am I supposed to keep everything at 0dB in the MPC and adjust the levels after it's tracked in the DAW? Or am I missing a fundamental part of the tracking procedure?

Thanks,
Chisel
www.soundclick.com/chisel316
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By Mr modnaR Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:27 pm
Chisel wrote:Okay, so I've got a beat playing on the MPC1000. All the levels are adjusted in the MPC mixer. The kick is thumpin', the snare is snappin', and the hi-hats are clean but not too loud.

So now I go to track this beat into my DAW. But since I already adjusted the levels in the MPC, the tracks are not "hot" enough coming into the DAW's mixer and I end up with lots of noise.

Am I supposed to keep everything at 0dB in the MPC and adjust the levels after it's tracked in the DAW? Or am I missing a fundamental part of the tracking procedure?

Thanks,
Chisel
www.soundclick.com/chisel316


yeah that's right, you want the hottest signal with no clipping, going into your pc, then you'll have to mix it again within the daw.

hope this helps.
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By Antonym Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:36 pm
if at all possible, track into your daw with spdif on stuff like drums, etc that would not benefit from tracking noise.

establish a decent mix in the mpc just for reference for later. don't put it off or it may be beyond salvage.

peace, good luck
nym

By sleepersriddle Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:59 pm
i agree you should just save your in-mpc mix for reference, then go back and boost up each track as hot as possible without clipping for tracking purposes. Then remix it inside the Daw.

Unless..

it would be less flexible, but it seems to me that if you tracked out each track separately via digital out, and kept the mixed levels, the sound wouldn't suffer too much. But it would give you less room for changing levels on the DAW, ie if you boosted up a quiet track you have then lost resolution.

By engineer Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:21 pm
sleepersriddle wrote:i agree you should just save your in-mpc mix for reference, then go back and boost up each track as hot as possible without clipping for tracking purposes. Then remix it inside the Daw.

Unless..

it would be less flexible, but it seems to me that if you tracked out each track separately via digital out, and kept the mixed levels, the sound wouldn't suffer too much. But it would give you less room for changing levels on the DAW, ie if you boosted up a quiet track you have then lost resolution.


Let a professional step in here. What sleeper said is absolutely 100% incorrect. You'll lose resolution by NOT turning up the tracks to their fullest volume. You can ALWAYS adjust volume levels in a DAW after you finish but once you've recorded the signal you can't do anything to change the quality of the recording.

I don't want to get into a lecture but basically, the louder a sound is recorded the more bits it will make use of thus giving you a more accurate depiction of the sound itself. If you record at a low level, the sound won't take advantage of the bit depth and sound quality can suffer.

Mixing inside the MPC is difficult if not downright impossible. If you want to do a real mix, then track it into your DAW no questions asked. As far as recording it goes, I wouldn't use the SPIF connectors only because you won't have 6 seperate outs like with analog. You CAN synch up the mpc via MMC to track each individually through SPIF but it will LOSE THE FEEL!!! I've done this many times and notice not only a loss in feel on a 1000 but a 2000 as well. Try to track it all at once if possible, if not use one track with a hit that comes a bar before the sequence even starts to synch everything up with.

If your budget permits run the 6 outs to some preamp/EQ/compressors first then into your DAW. The 1000 sounds too clean so whatever you can put on it before it goes into the digital realm is gold. I work in a professional recording studio so you know I run my shit through preamps, EQs, and compressors before the A/D conversion into Protools.

Of course if a beat sounds good coming from the MPC and I don't have anything to add, I dont even **** with tracking it out into single tracks and take the two track straight out of the box.

And if you can make shit sound good through SPIF synched to your DAW with MMC, then by all means do your thing.

EDIT: Also, when recording, make sure that your tracks aren't overloading the mic pre as well as not clipping. A lot of people get caught up in the signal not clipping and forget that preamps distort just as easy.

By Chisel Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:13 pm
engineer wrote:If your budget permits run the 6 outs to some preamp/EQ/compressors first then into your DAW. The 1000 sounds too clean so whatever you can put on it before it goes into the digital realm is gold. I work in a professional recording studio so you know I run my **** through preamps, EQs, and compressors before the A/D conversion into Protools.


Thanks for the info, engineer. What about the master EQ/Comp on the MPC? Is it worth using if I don't have all the h/w effects to chain before the A/D conversion?

By orjanbeats Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:16 pm
Why not use a 6-channel analog mixer to mix your beats? Learn how to mix, and mix your beats analogue. And then you could keep a copy of the sequence/pgm on your computer, in case you later need to have the beat as multitracks (for example if you're gonna sell the beat or anything). That's what I'm gonna do.
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By TBonus76 Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:31 pm
Chisel wrote:What about the master EQ/Comp on the MPC? Is it worth using if I don't have all the h/w effects to chain before the A/D conversion?


If you are gonna multitrack it then skip the master eq/comp, it will be easier and probably sound better if you do all that in the DAW. I think most engineers would agree that the effects in the MPC aren't really that great. I like to do all my mixing after it's multitracked to the DAW.

As for the syncing part, I agree with engineer and highly recommend the method of putting a sound 1 bar before every track starts so you can sync them up properly in the DAW. You'd be surprised at how the midi sync will mess with your tracks. I too have multitracked stuff using a midi sync then had to go back and manually line up certain tracks because they were off by sometimes as much as 15ms... definately enough to effect the "feel". I think I remember reading somewehre that midi syncs can fluctuate up to as much as 20ms.

By sleepersriddle Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:53 pm
Sorry if I was perhaps unclear.
However, there is no need to 'step in' or what ever.

You were simply confused about what I meant.

"I agree you should just save your in-mpc mix for reference, then go back and boost up each track as hot as possible without clipping for tracking purposes."....

that was my quote, and if you read it again, what i meant was to 'boost up each track as hot as possible' INSIDE the mpc, before tracking out to the pc. This also seems to be what you are suggesting, no?

Further on, I stated,
"if you boosted up a quiet track you have then lost resolution."
And in this case what I meant was, if the track was recorded quietly into the DAW, and you need to raise the volume after that, then you are getting lower resolution that you should have.

Again, that is exactly what you are saying.

So, rather than me being 100% wrong I'm afraid you got it all twisted and read what I wrote 180 degree backward.

Maybe I wrote confusingly though so I'm glad you chimed in if I was confusing anyone else.

By jfierce Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:58 am
sleepersriddle wrote:Sorry if I was perhaps unclear.
However, there is no need to 'step in' or what ever.

You were simply confused about what I meant.

"I agree you should just save your in-mpc mix for reference, then go back and boost up each track as hot as possible without clipping for tracking purposes."....

that was my quote, and if you read it again, what i meant was to 'boost up each track as hot as possible' INSIDE the mpc, before tracking out to the pc. This also seems to be what you are suggesting, no?

Further on, I stated,
"if you boosted up a quiet track you have then lost resolution."
And in this case what I meant was, if the track was recorded quietly into the DAW, and you need to raise the volume after that, then you are getting lower resolution that you should have.

Again, that is exactly what you are saying.

So, rather than me being 100% wrong I'm afraid you got it all twisted and read what I wrote 180 degree backward.

Maybe I wrote confusingly though so I'm glad you chimed in if I was confusing anyone else.
yeah nothing wrong with your advice.

nice info from engineer but you need to work on reading comprehension

By Chisel Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:30 am
I'd like to thank *everyone* that responded for your help!

Peace \/
Chisel
www.soundclick.com/chisel316

By orjanbeats Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:35 am
Yeah but why not use an analog mixer to mix directly from the MPC's multi outs? Why didn't anyone comment that? :cry:

By cooocooo1 Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:38 am
cuz thats not what he asked....
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By MarkWolbirgh Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:35 am
orjanbeats wrote:Yeah but why not use an analog mixer to mix directly from the MPC's multi outs? Why didn't anyone comment that? :cry:


Because an analog mixer would make just as much sense as mixing in the MPC.

You need to have the audio tracked and saved on your DAW before you attempt to mix anything.
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By c.toon Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:42 am
Wrong

An analog mixer gives you something your MPC doesnt have: Warm distortion.

I normally do the beat on the Main outs and then hook up the 8 outs to my mackie and record 8tracks at a time using mmc & mtc.

Now over the years my mixing got better, but still I always have the feeling when I take the mix I made whilst making the beat (inside the 3000/2000) and play it next to the finished "tracked" mix the Main out mix almost always sounds better when it comes to overall sound but has small mistakes that I cant fix if I just record the 2track off the mainouts. For example I notice some hihats need a highpass or drums still need tweaking.

I can work perfectly aight with all this, but I still believe there may be a better solution. I don't have any outboard gear at my homestudio, but the 8bus mackie does the job nicely.

jaem? engineer?

.toon