how to get better at kicks?

Nym wrote:tune, tune, tune your kicks to the key of your song.

Key is something I've struggled to grasp since I first tried to learn more about it. To me, the key of a song is the root note of the music. Whether that's an entire song or a certain section of a song.

If I sanple a piano loop in key C (for example) but then chop it up and resequence my chops is it possible that I then change the key of the original sample?

With respect to tuning drums to the key of the song. Can someone point out the error of my following logic?

Each 0.08 of tune is equivalent to 1 semi-tone. So to get your kick in the right key, you wouldn't need to go any more than +/- 1.0 of tune? If I'm right in saying each 0.08 of tune is 1 semitone, it should follow that to re-tune a kick, you should always end up with your tuning at a multiple of .08. Is this right or could a kick only need tuning by 0.02?

If I'm over-thinking this please advise what a typical range of +/- tune you would use to tune your drums.

Got a headache just thinking about this

I am not able to give you a technical answer. My answer would be: "Don't look at the numbers and use your ears.".

Yeah I figured the natural response is this but in all honesty I cannot hear the difference between a kick at -0.02, 0 and +0.00. Probably in the wrong game but still, I like to fux with this as a hobby.

I think my greatest concern is 'key'. It seems key isn't a definable thing. Some musicians throw in off-key notes because it works. Wouldn't this then mean that they sort of are 'in-key' for the very reason that they work.
To an extent of course. I can hear some notes when played really don't go with my other elements in a track so I know that they are out of key.

I think I'm just waffling here so I'll shut up. I don't have any of my music gear with me at present so it's easier to talk about technique whilst practice isn't possible.

I have the same experience with bass notes.

If i make a beat with the SP1200 and sampled at 45 +8%, the key of the samples is most of the time out of tune with a bass patch of a sound module, so i have to correct the tuning of the sound module to fit the bass notes to the "wrong" tuning of the sample. I always notice that there's a small range where it sounds good... 440.8 sounds good, but 441.2 still sounds good too.. and everything in between.

So i think there's a small range where things can be just slightly out of tune and it still sounds ok.

Think of it like a guitar playing in a band of instruments. If the guitar is out of tune, it'll sound wrong. But if it's just SLIGHTLY out of tune, most people won't notice. Sometimes i think it can even add to a musical piece, if not everything is in "perfect" tune.

The human brain/ear has the ability to correct small errors/differences anyway.

In short, i wouldn't worry about "micro increments" when tuning sounds. If it sounds good, leave it where you think it sounds good.... maybe come back a day later and listen again, if it still sounds good, it probably is.

jibber wrote: If it sounds good, leave it where you think it sounds good.... maybe come back a day later and listen again, if it still sounds good, it probably is.

Sound advice. Don't think, feel.

Need to get my shit back up and running!

this is way easier when working with a kick like an 808 where you can actually use a tuner. but 808 kicks decline in pitch, so i use the transient period of the kick as a reference when tuning my drums

but before i tune drums/compose using modules, vstis, etc, i tune my sample. you would be shocked at how many samples come directly from vinyl, cd, vhs, mp3, whatever COMPLETELY out of tune.

i use reatune to see how far off the sample is from a "real" tuning and i adjust it by anywhere up to a half semitone. if the sample is too busy and you can't get a read on the tuner, drop a reference tone in there from a vst and use that as a reference. you're basically just finding the tonic of your sample.

then, use a reference tone or the sample itself to tune your kick in place. your ear will hear it, don't worry about the starting point or numbers or anything...just start tuning and wait for the moment where it sits better. sometimes it helps to tune your drum up 12 semitones so that the tonal content is more easily recognizable.

the same goes for other drum sounds, too. an out of tune ride sticks out like a sore thumb.

Nym wrote: sometimes it helps to tune your drum up 12 semitones so that the tonal content is more easily recognizable.

Yes! Pitching any kind of bass tones up an octave makes it much easier to tune them

yeah a lot of time samples are not in tune.... lately i leave it as is... and use fine tune on VST instruments to get it sonically appealing... if the sample is some sort of sound that the tune bends somewhere... sometimes I might make a bass or some sound on a vst that also decays with a bend... or who what ever. that way it sounds different than 100% locked in at C all the time.

for bass synths.. you might find it easier to try the same key a few octaves up to nail the exact note you need... than do the same key down at the proper octave.


having things detuned may not be technically correct, but as an art form... i tend to not always follow music's rules and just do what ever....

tuning drums can be tough, i go with what sounds good and not specific notes.

think you guys are gonna hate this but i like what it does.
the thing with house music the kick drum is pretty important obviously it drives the tracks the kicks have got to smash through on those night club systems. so i guess your gonna get some powerful kicks that are nice and easy to tune and shape to what your working on. yes not much good if you not using in conjuction with daw.
anyway i think it's a pretty good vst.

that vst looks awesome! love the envelope sculpting gui. tough sell at $40 though

mastasteez wrote:

Nym wrote:tune, tune, tune your kicks to the key of your song.

Key is something I've struggled to grasp since I first tried to learn more about it. To me, the key of a song is the root note of the music. Whether that's an entire song or a certain section of a song.

If I sanple a piano loop in key C (for example) but then chop it up and resequence my chops is it possible that I then change the key of the original sample?

With respect to tuning drums to the key of the song. Can someone point out the error of my following logic?

Each 0.08 of tune is equivalent to 1 semi-tone. So to get your kick in the right key, you wouldn't need to go any more than +/- 1.0 of tune? If I'm right in saying each 0.08 of tune is 1 semitone, it should follow that to re-tune a kick, you should always end up with your tuning at a multiple of .08. Is this right or could a kick only need tuning by 0.02?

If I'm over-thinking this please advise what a typical range of +/- tune you would use to tune your drums.

Got a headache just thinking about this

i dont know where you got the .08, if you have an mpc, it has +/- of 1 semitone in the tuning section. so if you beat was in the key of c, and you had a kick that was a d, you would just pitch your kick down 2 semitones, because d down 1 semitone is c#, and down 1 more semitones is C.

if your in doubt, check a diagram like this and count them out each time:

http://piano-hacker.com/wp-content/uplo ... label1.png

if i were you, i would make a folder of tuned drums in my mpc, and label all the samples in them to what tune they are in, then whenever you have a beat your working on, you can just pull up your folder and pick and choose samples that resonate with the root note of the key of your beat.

i usually just tune the kicks to the root, and also it sounds really good if you can tune the toms also, but that doesnt always work.
sometimes i will also tune the snare to another note in the scale. just play around with it each time to find out what sounds best.

keep in mind not to over tune though,(ie all the drums in your beat to the key) that can make your beat sound weird.

if your having trouble sequencing your kicks, try to listen to your favorite songs, and got o your mpc and bang out the pattern they are using, you can learn alot from this.

damien907 wrote:

mastasteez wrote:

Nym wrote:tune, tune, tune your kicks to the key of your song.

Key is something I've struggled to grasp since I first tried to learn more about it. To me, the key of a song is the root note of the music. Whether that's an entire song or a certain section of a song.

If I sanple a piano loop in key C (for example) but then chop it up and resequence my chops is it possible that I then change the key of the original sample?

With respect to tuning drums to the key of the song. Can someone point out the error of my following logic?

Each 0.08 of tune is equivalent to 1 semi-tone. So to get your kick in the right key, you wouldn't need to go any more than +/- 1.0 of tune? If I'm right in saying each 0.08 of tune is 1 semitone, it should follow that to re-tune a kick, you should always end up with your tuning at a multiple of .08. Is this right or could a kick only need tuning by 0.02?

If I'm over-thinking this please advise what a typical range of +/- tune you would use to tune your drums.

Got a headache just thinking about this

i dont know where you got the .08, if you have an mpc, it has +/- of 1 semitone in the tuning section. so if you beat was in the key of c, and you had a kick that was a d, you would just pitch your kick down 2 semitones, because d down 1 semitone is c#, and down 1 more semitones is C.

cheers man! I was thinking 1.00 of tune represented 1 octave but now know 1.00 is a semi-tone. I use Maschine and you can fine tune so you move in increments of 0.01.

What determines what key/note a kick (or any percussion for that matter) is in? I presume different velocities create different notes? It's not like a drummer can tune his kit right?

Coz wrote:Sound selection comes before everything else. You can't polish a turd (although it can be rolled in glitter ), so pick better sounds if something isn't working.

LOL! Rolling it in glitter lmao±

Iron Leg wrote:think you guys are gonna hate this but i like what it does.
the thing with house music the kick drum is pretty important obviously it drives the tracks the kicks have got to smash through on those night club systems. so i guess your gonna get some powerful kicks that are nice and easy to tune and shape to what your working on. yes not much good if you not using in conjuction with daw.
anyway i think it's a pretty good vst.

Ah there's quite a few of these VST's. I've tried a few there's some drum synth in the Ableton Max For Live Essentials pack. I use them sometimes to layer up.

mastasteez wrote:
What determines what key/note a kick (or any percussion for that matter) is in? I presume different velocities create different notes? It's not like a drummer can tune his kit right?

yeah they can (obviously not with the drastic potential range of guitar strings for example) you use the tuning key to tighten or loosen the skins... it changes the tone fairly a lot from one extent to the other... but I am not sure what a drummer is aiming for when tuning drums.