whats the swing on drum and bass

yo thanks alot fellas i really appreciated it ,

it not really my style but i think i'm beging to like the stuff i may come up with ,
itchy thanks for your example it reallt tight you did that in 15 mins man i wish i could do that,
here's an exmple of what i had did last nite i did experiment a bit with truncating and decay and some timing i think i need to work on the kick pattern but with your guy's tips and techniques i think it may turn out ok

here's what did first is the sequence then after is the chops heres what i mean it sounds to studdery it doesnt floow like a regular drum pattern
this is 182 bpm
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YWII62PO

itchyvinyl wrote:

dj e.d.e wrote:thanks for the tips guys, one thing tho .maybe it's jungle then what i using is a break from a record and it's chop'd up but the sound is kinda chopy and mechanical sounding,

Try NOT chopping the break into every individual hit..........but chop into pieces of like 2 notes, 3 notes, 4 notes ----some pieces starting with kicks, and some pieces starting with snares..............and then obviously speed up the pitch, and try to put together a sequence. If your pieces are like 3 or 4 notes long - or longer, set their pads to 'Note Off' so you can sequence them at different lengths without them overlapping in a bad way.

I think a lot of times when you hear a little swing in D&B/Jungle, it's because the chops are longer, and you can hear some natural swing in what the drummer was playing in the original break.
For example- listen to "Amen Brother" at normal speed, you can hear that there is a tiny bit of swing in the way the drummer played it - it's not machine-like 16ths.

Damn strait! Preserve the natural swing and mechanics of the break. I use to use the same technique. I would also chop a new break out of the original; each one with a different start point for each hit in the break. Another thing I would do is chop the amen into bars, 1/2 notes, 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes, and 1/16 notes and set the program to play all samples till end.

All I do these days is select 4 or 5 different breaks chop them into single hits and lay them out on the pads in the order they were originaly played, eq the breaks so they fit together, and then go to town. The trick is making the drummer work for you and exploiting the flexibility of the break. Also make a kit of single hits to lay over your break here and there to livin in up. Most jungle or drum and bass tracks use twice the amount of bars also. So where you have a slower tempo track that changes every 16 bars, a jungle or drum and bass track changes up every 32 with a major transition or break at 64 bars that is an exemplified break or the one at 32bars. And it usualy has 3 sets of 64 bars for the meat of the track then it breaks down and repeats the same 64 but augmented to a degree. But please be original. Im sick of this template because ive spun to many records with it. Also as far as playing with the mechanics of the break itself... lay our your kicks and snares in a progressive and changing pattern and link them together by the tight hat or ghost snare rolls that are usualy in the 3rd 1/4 note of a 4/4 break. Also be sure to change up the snare sound to keep it dynamic and after you lay out your high hats play with the velocity of them to keep the feel. If you have anymore questions just let me know or pm me. And check out my friends ragga jungle at www.myspace.com/urbandrums aswell as my own more break core oriented jungle that can be accessed by the link at the bottom of my message.

BBoy2005 wrote:

charlieocali wrote:Whats a ghost hit or ghost snare???

light snare tap ?

Yeah.. to better clarify its all of the lighter snare hits that are sometimes hidden in the extra air. Use these to fill up your patterns to make them sound fuller and more complex.

oh yeah one other thing ,
when you make a sequence do you record it in the bpm you want or do you start off wiht a slow bpm then speed it up to where you want it.
i tried it both ways and it was a lot harder to bang out drum patterns in 182 bpm then starting with 120 bpm then speeding it up , coz it don't sound right it very very choppy.

Hey Threshed,
Those tracks on your myspace site are sick.
I haven't listened to any jungle oriented stuff since the late '90s, but I was feelin that. Sounds really evolved.

ditto.^^
did you check your email itchy

dj e.d.e wrote:oh yeah one other thing ,
when you make a sequence do you record it in the bpm you want or do you start off wiht a slow bpm then speed it up to where you want it.
i tried it both ways and it was a lot harder to bang out drum patterns in 182 bpm then starting with 120 bpm then speeding it up , coz it don't sound right it very very choppy.

Nah dont do that because the feel of the drums change with tempo. If you make your beat at a slow tempo and you speed it up you will find that some of the hits sound off or that they are between hits that they shouldnt be. It messes with the momentum. The best ways to sequence them is by either playing them live at the correct tempo with itchies method, or using single hits (that are on your pads in the order of the original break)in step edit or sequence edit mode with continue to next step selected. When using the single hit method turn the overdub on and off so you can think out or preplan your next steps by trying pad combonations. Then after you get the basic pattern down go back over it without continue to next step selected and fill in your empty spaces to keep your drums full. Next is just applying single shots for more impact at the apex of your breaks.. like splashes or heavy snares.. backward cymbals.. etc. And think about fills too. Basicly to make higher tempo patterns effectively you gota start to think patterns out in steps bassed on what you want them to do in relation to what you can do with the break. Your mind has to surpass the flexibility (what the break can do) of the break and when you start to think outside the break (of more than what the break can do) you know your on the right path because you can start encorperating anything you can imagine to express your style. Its a whole different way of making a beat because its based more on ideas that the feel of the rhythm like have with slower tempos. Try working at 165 to 175 bmp. 180 doesnt leave you to much space to work with. I hope this helps. And thanks for the feedback guys!

naw thank you for your input to this thread ima litle confused but i just have to read this over and over till i get it,it way complex this style ,i mean it sounds complex and it is , not your typical hiphop productions.

thanks

dj e.d.e wrote:oh yeah one other thing ,
when you make a sequence do you record it in the bpm you want or do you start off wiht a slow bpm then speed it up to where you want it.
i tried it both ways and it was a lot harder to bang out drum patterns in 182 bpm then starting with 120 bpm then speeding it up , coz it don't sound right it very very choppy.

like Threshed said dont slow down the tempo.. if you think its hard to hit the pads in high speed just the use note repeat button and push the pads
instead of hitting them, i'm not sure but i think alot of the hiphop beats is made by hitting the pads like a drummer is that correct? it would be alot harder to make a complex dnb beat that way at least it is for me..
it might take a lil practice to only use the note repeat, you have to be quick
so you dont get unwanted double hits

i'll see if i can put up a beat made this way later...

psitech wrote:

dj e.d.e wrote:oh yeah one other thing ,
when you make a sequence do you record it in the bpm you want or do you start off wiht a slow bpm then speed it up to where you want it.
i tried it both ways and it was a lot harder to bang out drum patterns in 182 bpm then starting with 120 bpm then speeding it up , coz it don't sound right it very very choppy.

like Threshed said dont slow down the tempo.. if you think its hard to hit the pads in high speed just the use note repeat button and push the pads
instead of hitting them, i'm not sure but i think alot of the hiphop beats is made by hitting the pads like a drummer is that correct? it would be alot harder to make a complex dnb beat that way at least it is for me..
it might take a lil practice to only use the note repeat, you have to be quick
so you dont get unwanted double hits

i'll see if i can put up a beat made this way later...

My friend who is a realy good drummer and has alot of experience makin tracks with pads had a hard time making a beat at a dnb tempo by hand with the mpc. Sure you can make a basic pattern, but the problem we experienced was that since the timing is so tight at higher bpm that when the timing correct and even the quantize when timing correct was off, it left us with alot of cleaning up to do. It can be done but it messes with your work flow and you can loose your original beat realy quick. Especialy since there isnt a redo function and you can only undo once.

dj e.d.e wrote:naw thank you for your input to this thread ima litle confused but i just have to read this over and over till i get it,it way complex this style ,i mean it sounds complex and it is , not your typical hiphop productions.

thanks

Its realy worth it though. Because when you go back to making slower tempo beats you can realy get down to the science of it, and you can get even more creative with all the extra space in the beat aswell as your head. You will be able to feel and think with the beat in a more integral fasion.

Dub, could you expand on that, please? This is interesting. Are you saying the snare should be shifted early?
>>>>>>>>>>>

try programming a beat quantized and then move say the hats forward by two ticks and the snares by three, you should notice the difference- then tweak them til they sound right...

greg

threshed wrote:

psitech wrote:

dj e.d.e wrote:oh yeah one other thing ,
when you make a sequence do you record it in the bpm you want or do you start off wiht a slow bpm then speed it up to where you want it.
i tried it both ways and it was a lot harder to bang out drum patterns in 182 bpm then starting with 120 bpm then speeding it up , coz it don't sound right it very very choppy.

like Threshed said dont slow down the tempo.. if you think its hard to hit the pads in high speed just the use note repeat button and push the pads
instead of hitting them, i'm not sure but i think alot of the hiphop beats is made by hitting the pads like a drummer is that correct? it would be alot harder to make a complex dnb beat that way at least it is for me..
it might take a lil practice to only use the note repeat, you have to be quick
so you dont get unwanted double hits

i'll see if i can put up a beat made this way later...

My friend who is a realy good drummer and has alot of experience makin tracks with pads had a hard time making a beat at a dnb tempo by hand with the mpc. Sure you can make a basic pattern, but the problem we experienced was that since the timing is so tight at higher bpm that when the timing correct and even the quantize when timing correct was off, it left us with alot of cleaning up to do. It can be done but it messes with your work flow and you can loose your original beat realy quick. Especialy since there isnt a redo function and you can only undo once.

i have a friend like that too, difference is he is just not a really good drummer... just ok

question: on the 2kxl it was possible to set the timing to desired amount of later/before and you would hear the effect immediatly when using note repeat but i havent got this to work on the 4k it's something i have to apply after the recording, you think this could be an os thing? (i have 1.60) or perhaps the programmers never thougth of it...

psitech wrote:

threshed wrote:

psitech wrote:

dj e.d.e wrote:oh yeah one other thing ,
when you make a sequence do you record it in the bpm you want or do you start off wiht a slow bpm then speed it up to where you want it.
i tried it both ways and it was a lot harder to bang out drum patterns in 182 bpm then starting with 120 bpm then speeding it up , coz it don't sound right it very very choppy.

like Threshed said dont slow down the tempo.. if you think its hard to hit the pads in high speed just the use note repeat button and push the pads
instead of hitting them, i'm not sure but i think alot of the hiphop beats is made by hitting the pads like a drummer is that correct? it would be alot harder to make a complex dnb beat that way at least it is for me..
it might take a lil practice to only use the note repeat, you have to be quick
so you dont get unwanted double hits

i'll see if i can put up a beat made this way later...

My friend who is a realy good drummer and has alot of experience makin tracks with pads had a hard time making a beat at a dnb tempo by hand with the mpc. Sure you can make a basic pattern, but the problem we experienced was that since the timing is so tight at higher bpm that when the timing correct and even the quantize when timing correct was off, it left us with alot of cleaning up to do. It can be done but it messes with your work flow and you can loose your original beat realy quick. Especialy since there isnt a redo function and you can only undo once.

i have a friend like that too, difference is he is just not a really good drummer... just ok

question: on the 2kxl it was possible to set the timing to desired amount of later/before and you would hear the effect immediatly when using note repeat but i havent got this to work on the 4k it's something i have to apply after the recording, you think this could be an os thing? (i have 1.60) or perhaps the programmers never thougth of it...

I have OS 1.71 and when I open window on the timing correct I have a shift time earlier or later, and to the right of that there is a shift amount feild. The numbers in the field go from 0 through 119 when the tc is set to 1/16, so it is tic specific. I even checked with other tc increments.

Besides that the function just rounds up or down to the the nearest timing correct increment given the option of earlier or later. To adjust it you would just have to change your note length, but you prolly know that.

yeah i knew that but i mean can you hear the difference in realtime when recording whith note repeat?... this function is not necessary but it would go bit faster to record some basic drumrolls, i just got used to doing it this way on the 2kxl and it would sometimes lead to some interresting rythms would'nt thougth of otherwise