Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

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Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By objektivone Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:37 pm
everday is saturday wrote:I've noticed something in particular.

Alot of cats are always wanting to get that off beat feel/style, I think a good way about going about it is to improve your timing learning exactly how to play on beat to begin with.
Study, learn all you can about staying on beat in different time signatures etc. and then it becomes more of a natural transition when your experimenting with irregular rhythms.

I say this because I noticed cats just doing the offbeat stuff but without an understanding of how to really play on beat. It's similar to someone saying they want to draw Anime but don't understand how practicing real life drawings will help their foundation.

I say you can do it up man, but just make sure your foundation skills are strong too.



I have studied drums and played to a metronome for 12 years. I know rhythms.
I was just trying to figure out if there was a certain technique some of these producers use. I also stated I didn't necessarily want to do it in my beats, but just wanted to know how people do it. I wanted to try it that is all.

Read the first post. Thanks for the advice though.

Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By objektivone Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:38 pm
four eyes wrote:when you add swing and/or shift you can select a specific range in time so why not just select like a 2 beat long range at a time twist it up and then copy and paste that however long you want.

you have to make sure to pay attention to what your doing otherwise it will really sound like a mess.


This could be really cool. I will try this too. Some interesting ideas!!!

Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By lilro Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:08 pm
Lay down your sample sequence or instrument or w/e to a metronome. Then lay down your drums without the metronome.
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Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By bicedidit Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:13 pm
say u have a kit with 8 drms sounds loaded.
on the other 8 pads, load the same drums up and time shift the same drum sounds a little bit and while ur playing the drum beat, randomly use the other 8 pads which have been time shifted.

get it?

Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By _Stilo_ Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:36 pm
objektivone wrote:
_Stilo_ wrote:He was basically summarizing what everyone else was telling you before....but anyway.



Sorry I will stop being polite when someone actually answers the question instead of treating me like ****.

Several people were already answering you as polite as you can expect.

Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By objektivone Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:39 pm
_Stilo_ wrote:
objektivone wrote:
_Stilo_ wrote:He was basically summarizing what everyone else was telling you before....but anyway.



Sorry I will stop being polite when someone actually answers the question instead of treating me like ****.

Several people were already answering you as polite as you can expect.



LOL. I know, which is why I was saying thank you and that is a good idea, i appreciate it, etc...

Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By objektivone Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:42 pm
bicedidit wrote:say u have a kit with 8 drms sounds loaded.
on the other 8 pads, load the same drums up and time shift the same drum sounds a little bit and while ur playing the drum beat, randomly use the other 8 pads which have been time shifted.

get it?


Somewhat, but I like this idea a lot. So double all the drum sounds on different pads, but when you say time shift do you mean double up on the playing of all the drums? Add silence in front of the drums?

What I am getting is have 8 sounds with normal drums, have doubles of all with a random amount of silence in front of them.... randomly switch to the other pads to get a little offbeat feel...

That is a good idea too! Thanks a lot. I will try that too.
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Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By poundaproblem Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:32 pm
damn WTF happened with this thread? Duke got jumped for a pretty straight forward question :lol:


Anyways I think bicedidit's idea is cool. I use a combination of things to get that offbeat. A few ideas

1. (Similar to bicedidit) Take the same same sample and place it on a few pads. Lets say hats for example. Do one take with quantize on (usually on the 1). The next take you could turn off the quantize and use another track. The third take you can turn quantize on but add some swing. Mixing and matching this will get you some of the natural groove but at the same time will have some samples perfectly on time.

2. Take the sample and open up trim screen. zoom in until the wave is pretty large, trim backwards until there is a SMALL gap before the actual audio begins. If you copy a sample (like hats) a few times and trim them slightly different and then add a touch of swing you will get some pretty cool results. Again it will sound natural but still be on time.

I have worked with a BUNCH of drummers. One of the hardest thing to get a seasoned drummer to do is to play off beat on purpose...

Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By dtaa pla muk Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:42 pm
a lot has to do with the melody and/or bassline you're working with, too.
i find this style of drum a lot easier to program with if you make your drums before your melody. the other way around, the melody often kind of dictates where the drums should go and it's harder to get that pleasantly awkward knockery.
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Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By yepz Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:35 pm
objektivone wrote:Anyone know how they make these grooves without playing them yourself?


Not trying to be a smart ass but its not like they make a Dilla VSt that you imput you MIDI notes into and out spits this amazing sounding off beat groove. Its just going to boil down to practice and studying.
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Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By Fung45 Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:03 am
objektivone wrote:
buddy maxwell wrote:Lay down your drums with the quantize off.
Use step edit, as previously mentioned.
Shift each drum hit a bit, season to taste.
Your done.

I thought maybe there was a less time consuming way

SWING

Re: Off beat drums? Dilla Lotus style.

By Ldizzy Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 am
DONT TAKE THIS AS AN ABSOLUTE METHOD.. just try it... its ONE WAY TO DO IT AND IF IT WORKS.. THEN TRY THE OPPOSITE, EXPLORE.. BUT AGAIN THIS IS NO ABSOLUTE...

a lot of advices were good according to me... i just want to mention its not about simply being ''offbeat''... there's a certain relationship between ur drum sounds u want to establish... when it kinda .. articulates itself.. or pumps...

a tip that really made me better at this is to :

1) Use short kicks..
2) use short snares...

3) Lay down a kick on each 1st beat of ur mesures..

4) Put down ur snares a bit EARLIER in comparison to the kicks... but dont make them even... and not later.. its a completely different type of swag...

5) THEN.. put the hihats and they are the most important i guess.. they make the whole thing ''articulate'' itself... and now u have to pratice them...

6) when and only when ur good at that.. try to vary the ''loose and longer sounds'' fromt he shorter ones.. notice most of these drums use kinda wide Claps ... ''spilled'' over the beat... some also use some longer and looser hihats on the downbeats...

those drums necessitate a lot of sensitivity towards rythm and most of drummers i know dont even understand they are different from a perfect 4/4 or a 66% swing...

and u can achieve thim with or without quantizing

have fun :)
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