Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
By MaZe Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:55 pm
Golden_Era wrote:I challenge folks to list to my links and honestly ask whether they can tell it was made on the cheapest software around. Dirty in - dirty out. Software can do everything hardware can and i own MPCs and an ASR-10.


No disrespect intended but, those links clearly sound like software.
By jpeg Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:36 pm
Ill-Green wrote:Gear can inspire music. I feel the connection knowing my favorite producers used what I'm using. But gear cannot make music without the mind and soul of the individual that crafts it. If that was the case then my machines are Go-Bots!!



this is it

as in an artist creativity when channelled thru certain gear tend to lead to certain results.

yes u can achieve the same or very close with another setup however

the interface and spec of a maschine can influence ur creativity in a particular direction that produces a certain effect example

madlib on the sp1200 vs madlib on the 303

pete rock on the sp1200 vs pete on the mpc

alchemist on the asr10 versus alc on the mpc5k

rza on the ensonique vs rz on the roland mv and a guitar

different results yes they can do whatever on the newer maschines but how those old units impacted how their styles are expressed so machine is defo a factor

but granted it wont replace creativity.

and yes u can make ill shit in the box on any software and peeps will be none the wiser
By Golden_Era Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:25 pm
Maze,

How so? Of course you say that because i told you. I will post stuff from the MPC, ASR-10 and FL Studio and i guarantee you wont know the difference.

To say hardware is superior is silly. It's who is behind the equipment. Premier would be dope with FL Studio and E-diggin.



MaZe wrote:
Golden_Era wrote:I challenge folks to list to my links and honestly ask whether they can tell it was made on the cheapest software around. Dirty in - dirty out. Software can do everything hardware can and i own MPCs and an ASR-10.


No disrespect intended but, those links clearly sound like software.
By Undertow Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:23 am
So this wasn't a discussion about analog synths, processors and effects vs software alternatives? It was about digital, hardware vs software, samplers? I'm going to stay out of it then. I guess because of a lack of time to read the entire thread, on my part, I keep mistaking what we're talking about. :oops: :WTF:

That said, the merit of someone using hardware vs. software samplers is not something that interest me at all. It's not even something I think about or question and unless you're using something with characteristic fidelity, probably doesn't even matter except regarding personal workflow.
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By psr Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:28 am
I use all kinds of stuff (hw, sw, ios apps). I think RZA said it best when he mentioned that he likes to get a new machine (MPC, SPx0x, MV 8000 etc) for every new movie score or project because it forces a new way of creativity and keeps it exciting for him. I think this is a totally valid point. Cats switch up all the time (rza) while others rock within their comfort zone (Premo comes to mind). Me I check stuff out (test, review) and I usually end up right back at my comfort zone at some point.

I think where things get crazy is when someone says "Yo Needlz is my fav producer and he uses a Maschine. I want to sound like Needlz so I have to have a maschine and nothing else will do" that is essentially the mentality that I think this thread challenges. and I agree with that challenge. The idea that a skilled carpenter uses a certain model and brand of drill and hammer to create masterful works doesn't mean that the apprentice carpenter outfitted with the same tools will yield the same masterful results. Tools help along the way but its really the skilled hands that wield the tools that make the masterpiece. And 9 times out of 10 the cat with skills will create those same sorts of masterful works with what ever tools you hand him.

Unfortunately this sort of off kilter train of thought is perpetuated and capitalized on by manufacturers. There is no other reason to hire well known producers and have them do photo ops and demos all over the place. Perhaps even more unfortunate is that most of is know this and gear lust blinds some of us from time to time.
By MaZe Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:45 am
Golden_Era wrote:Maze,

How so? Of course you say that because i told you. I will post stuff from the MPC, ASR-10 and FL Studio and i guarantee you wont know the difference.

To say hardware is superior is silly. It's who is behind the equipment. Premier would be dope with FL Studio and E-diggin.



MaZe wrote:
Golden_Era wrote:I challenge folks to list to my links and honestly ask whether they can tell it was made on the cheapest software around. Dirty in - dirty out. Software can do everything hardware can and i own MPCs and an ASR-10.


No disrespect intended but, those links clearly sound like software.


I don't care one bit about hardware vs software. Good music is good music. Saying that beats from a software sampler sound like beats from hardware samplers which are known for a characteristic sound, sound the same as FL Studio sounds, doesn't make sense. Does an SP 1200 sound like an MPC 60? Does an MPC 3000 sound like an ASR 10? No. So saying that something sounds the way it does, in this case, a computer, doesn't mean it's inherently bad, it just sounds like a computer. If you can't tell the difference between the way something sounds, that's on you.

Also, I think people are fooling themselves thinking that software sounds like certain hardware pieces out the box. You can get software to sound close to certain hardware pieces with some work but to say there is no difference in sound is nieve. Now, I'm not talking about the difference between FL Studio and an MPC 1000 here. That's negligible. The difference between FL Studio and a 1200, 60, 3000, ASR, EPS, s950, SP 303 w/fx, etc., out the box, is night and day. You think Akai would've wasted, time, effort, money, etc. trying to convince people that the Ren cold sound like a 60/3000 if there wasn't a difference? If you want to say that software is superior to hardware in terms of portability, strength, options, expandibility, etc., I will agree 100%. To say that software sounds like certain hardware pieces out the box, is nonsensical.
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By electric dragon Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:54 pm
Undertow wrote:So this wasn't a discussion about analog synths, processors and effects vs software alternatives? It was about digital, hardware vs software, samplers? I'm going to stay out of it then. I guess because of a lack of time to read the entire thread, on my part, I keep mistaking what we're talking about. :oops: :WTF:

That said, the merit of someone using hardware vs. software samplers is not something that interest me at all. It's not even something I think about or question and unless you're using something with characteristic fidelity, probably doesn't even matter except regarding personal workflow.

The thread is about humans versus their tools, with an emphasis on why so many humans insist you need specific tools to do the best work.

Making music can be as simple as using your voice. Some of us are better equipped for that than others simply due to the biomechanics of our vocal chords and the shape of our lower skull. So we started making instruments; fast forward who knows how many years into The Now and we have a vast plethora of instruments to choose from.

It's all still humans using tools.

Some tools are very very nice. Some tools are pretty basic. And if you know how to use them both properly, you can do a lot of great work with them in your tool kit. Without a human to use them, tools just sit there. Without tools, humans are pretty restricted. We can sing, shape sounds and noises with our mouths, beat our hands on our chests, tap our thighs and clap. Tools greatly enhance our ability to extend our capability to make music.

Anyone can press a single key on a Steinway and produce a beautiful sounding note. But not everyone can sit at a Steinway and press the keys in such a way that they play beautiful music. There's a big difference between what gear is capable of and what the musician can get out of it.
By Undertow Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:32 am
That's not what I meant, electric dragon. That part is well understood. I fully understand conceptually what is being discussed. I meant, specifically, if anything. Regardless, thanks. :)

I had a lot to say about the subject early on, myself, as reflected in my posts, a lot of which alluded to some of the same ideas that are in your post—not verbatim but essentially the same. I'm moreover just pointing out that there seems to be various tangents going on with people being very specific about what types of "tools" they derive from the original poster's comments with others interpreting the discussion to be about something else, albeit somewhat interrelated.

It's becoming a very generalized and broad topic, and ever more vague. Discussions seemingly go awry quickly when "software" becomes an all encompassing catch-all term to mean everything written in a programming language except hardware samplers who's OSes themselves are in the nomenclature of "software" also—even though the impact of it's hardware can often affect workflow and fidelity—and when hardware becomes more a definition of tactile interfacing rather than analog electronics and sonics.

If it is a generalized discussion about humans interfacing with tools then all tools should be called into question, not just software vs hardware. There hasn't been much comparison between "hardware" vs "hardware" except, I believe, by one poster. So, it seems that it's more of a discussion about software vs hardware, not just tools. With that, I was just curious at this point as to what the original poster was initially referring to, if anything specific at all.

Anyone who says this is better than that in a sweeping entirety with no particular discernment, themselves are a tool. So, we have to at least be talking about something particular within some spectrum of definition. That's what I meant.
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By Ill-Green Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:29 am
Your mother is making the beats at night while you're sleeping. So when you wake up to mommy making ham and eggs, you find ready-made beats on your MPC. "Oh wow" you say "gear makes the music".
By Golden_Era Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:14 pm
To me the MPC is a classic case of what you put in you get out. If you get some lo-fi stuff run through an asr-10 or an sp12 into an MPC and you use grimy samples it will sound that way. If you want that clean sounding stuff, which I personally don't care for, the MPC can do that.

The one thing is some gear has limitations, for instance if you only have an SP12 chances are your stuff will be chopped into tiny pieces and sampling a 8 or 16 bar loops won't work.
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By sirparksalot Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:33 am
Funny thing is......the greats focus on the music and the machine is only a small piece of that puzzle.

We focus on the gear, and the music is a byproduct of trying to get ''that sound''.

Bitrate and A/D converters have very little to do with good music.
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By CHOPFYT Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:58 pm
Your right the gear doesnt make the music you do, f*ck these dudes and theyre gear elitism half tge f*ckers in here have more gear than beats...i mean most people dont even have links...also having knowledge and a collection doesnt make an opinion more valuable either so just make your music

No hate intended
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By Lampdog Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:05 pm
shank carvin wrote:Your right the gear doesnt make the music you do, f*ck these dudes and theyre gear elitism half tge f*ckers in here have more gear than beats...i mean most people dont even have links...also having knowledge and a collection doesnt make an opinion more valuable either so just make your music

No hate intended

+1 but on top of my +1 gonna add some hate.
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By CHOPFYT Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:19 pm
Ill-Green wrote:Your mother is making the beats at night while you're sleeping. So when you wake up to mommy making ham and eggs, you find ready-made beats on your MPC. "Oh wow" you say "gear makes the music".


:lol: missed that one :lol:


:nod: hate away L dawg everyone deserve a bit of hate :twisted:
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By Lampdog Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:27 pm
Reason I add hate is because as I said before I'm a minimalist, I have 15 year old asr10 only beats on mini-disc that to this day still pound hard. But asr10 couldn't have made that beat by itself ya dig.