Well, I find usig a collection af samples to make a composition harder than using synths and such to make my sounds and compose my music, I use samples, but not a lot, but I think it is a very different skill. Punkdisco, I agree, it's crazy how everyone just wants a triton and motif with their mpc and basically use it like a glorified sampling cd of sounds.
But as far as what is harder, composing beethovens fifth, or playing it on any instrument. Even though many people have played it on various instruments, the composition is very seldomly matched. So I think it is a very different thing. My sister houses me on piano playing, she can play beethoven and all that, but she can't write her own stuff using the same piano as quickly or as well as I can. Which is harder, I think they are very different skills, whether you do it with samples or your cello. If you want to compose, learning guitar may not get you what you actually want. Finding a hot loop and just using that is simple, but the cats that really do it can make any sample from any record work. You can't just use the low end of the spectrum to discount the whole spectrum, that's like using the guys that just learned stairway to heaven on the guitar to judge all guitarists.
By elmacaco
Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:47 pm
By cyrus
Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:03 pm
punkdISCO wrote:"sorry boys but recording a pice of audio and then resuing that in a song however hard to find the sample was will never be as difficult as learning a real instrumnet- no beef i play an instrument and i love sampling but to elevate something which essentially a technical process however artistically expressed to the levels of learning an instrument with all its nuances, colours, rules etc-"
Well put! There seems to be WAY too much emphasis in these forums to "if only I could find that perfect sample/loop". I only joined this forum 4ish months ago and the one think that has surprised me is that a significant percentage of the Hip Hop writing crowd seem to have very little interest in creating their own sound. Often when there is a synth on the scene, even that is sample based and will be the rompler that everyone else is using. I am not aware of any other genre of music that has this sort of closed mind set..
I would hazard a guess that the truly great Hip Hop tracks out there are not being produced using the techniques we are led to believe (deliberately led?!). Sure, the Dre's of the world might have started with a turntable and a MPC but they will quickly discover that in order to sound original, you have to be original and this means not being primarily focused on producing tracks that are 100% sample based. Samples have their place but we all need more..
Yo. I agree with you guys the way you put it. But thats the problem. WE all look at it differantly. I play the piano. I know plenty of musicians. But I look at sampling like another artform, that even though it is music, it still is differant in a artistic sense........hiphops foundation is buillt off of sampling. Just as paintings foundation is built off using a brush. Or a lawyers career is based off of using case law, or a doctors practice is based off of years of discovery and research of the human anatomy and science.
You can take it wherever you want it. Just because you are a musician (like a guitarist) does not automatically mean, you have done something more difficult, or more original then some one who samples.
I also think it is a gernaralization to say that hiphop artists just try to be like everyone else. Granted there are alot of people who do. But if i were to say that pearl jam, sounds alot like led zepplin.........or blink 182 sounds like the clash.........or whoever it might be........is that bad? If you are influenced by other artists is that bad?
And all rock songs, or any genres, uses a set of similar chords and notes, and rhythms....that help define the genre.............so just cause you use a g chord, you are not being original?
I also think another problem is, that hiphop's genre hasnt been around as long as others.....so people dont neccesarily understand it, or know where it came from. Just like the turntable, the sampler has become hiphops tool of the trade. Hiphop is a sample based genre........i mean, you can argue all you want, but thats the **** point, it incorporates samples. Just like a painter uses a brush, it uses a brush, thats the point of painting. Thats the point of producing hiphop with samples. No one is argueing that it doesnt incorporate samples. Feel me?
And when i refer to sampling, im including all possible routes. Even the most original electronic producer, unless they are using an anolog synth, they are using samples at somepoint. Stevie wonder uses a rompler, which contains samples. SO just cause you use samples doesnt mean your doing it all the same way. I sample vinyl...........and yeah, i like finding loops, however, i also sample single notes, and do create melodies and songs, basslines, etc. just as some one who would use a piano. I chop loops, rearrange them, incorporate them with chops from servearl diffarnt pieces of vinyl...........I manipluate samples so that they dont sound like the original at all..........and that is the art. Just as struming the guitar is to playing rock...............manipulating samples is to hiphop.
dont assume that cause some one is an advocate of sampling..........that all they do is use loops. and you also cant even undersetimate the art of the loop. Looping is how hiphop started. A dj would find a drum loop off of old records, and dj the break on two turntables. They would esesentially seemlessly loop the break with 2 turntables.
oh and 1 more thing. do you consider someone who plays mozazrt on a piano........original? yeah, it is a very very accomplished skill to do so........but is he being original? or is he just playing someone elses music? Basically my point, just because you can play the piano, doesnt mean you are doing anything original. same to say that just because you sample doesnt mean you arent doing anything extremly skilled, or original.
Last edited by cyrus on Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By cyrus
Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:14 pm
jaem wrote:why does no one understand sarcasm on this board!??!?!??!?!??!?!
well it got a good convo started.
but maybe you should put a
next time................... 
By DaSoof
Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:18 pm
"sampling cannot be as difficult as writing music on an instrument, is an uneducated statement"
what u said right there is uneducated. sampling is easy. learning an instrument is not.
"If sampling was easy ...........how come every body who samples isnt as good as the artists mentioned above?"
Maybee because they dont sound like the artists u mentioned, therefore their music isnt considered as "good".
u tent to think music production is just about sampling. it aint. sampling is just one method that goes into music production.
what u said right there is uneducated. sampling is easy. learning an instrument is not.
"If sampling was easy ...........how come every body who samples isnt as good as the artists mentioned above?"
Maybee because they dont sound like the artists u mentioned, therefore their music isnt considered as "good".
u tent to think music production is just about sampling. it aint. sampling is just one method that goes into music production.
"MPC-4-ThouThou on theyy assss!!" - Mac Dre R.I.P
By jaem
Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:29 pm
cy...
some cat named ikke made a stupid comment about sampling
I essentially repeated his comment and was trying to poke fun at the fact he is bashing sampling on a forum of sample based producers
that's like going on a feminist forum and telling bad jokes,
ie "What do you do when the dishwasher is broke......smack her"
his name was ike so i made the tina turner reference...I thought at least some ppl would catch on....I guess not
I get the feeling most ppl in here are way under 18
oh well
some cat named ikke made a stupid comment about sampling
I essentially repeated his comment and was trying to poke fun at the fact he is bashing sampling on a forum of sample based producers
that's like going on a feminist forum and telling bad jokes,
ie "What do you do when the dishwasher is broke......smack her"
his name was ike so i made the tina turner reference...I thought at least some ppl would catch on....I guess not
I get the feeling most ppl in here are way under 18
oh well
By elmacaco
Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:24 am
sampling itself is easy, anyone can learn to record a sample in a few minutes, but selecting your samples and making good music from them is the skill. learning music notiation is harder than using a midi sequencer, bt does the same thing in the end. You do not need to know how to play an instrument well to make a good score, that's what the orchestra is for, or in our case, the sampler. You get your vision out there.
Also, this virtuosity aspect with playing an instrument is a thing of the past. A virtuoso of any instrument is largly irrelevant in today's music, nobody listens to them. It's the music that matters, and you can be a great instrument player but make really shitty music. Then someone with a sampler finds the best part of your record, samples it, makes good music with it, then you are a household name among producers and your records go for $20 on ebay, you may even be able to get a reprint selling if there is something else of production value on that record.
the days of ywinge malmsteen and Billy cobham are over. Shit if Jimi Hendrix came out now he probably couldn't get a deal. Skill with instruments gets you a studio musician's job, composition is much more valuable now, and much more fun. Most instrument players that are out there are just competant enough to play their music, which is the real selling point. Alicia Keys isn't a stellar piano player, when she first came out you could hear elem,ents of the first songs they teach you on piano in her tracks. She's better now, but she won't be winning any prizes for her playing, it is her songs and voice that get her the attention.
Also, this virtuosity aspect with playing an instrument is a thing of the past. A virtuoso of any instrument is largly irrelevant in today's music, nobody listens to them. It's the music that matters, and you can be a great instrument player but make really shitty music. Then someone with a sampler finds the best part of your record, samples it, makes good music with it, then you are a household name among producers and your records go for $20 on ebay, you may even be able to get a reprint selling if there is something else of production value on that record.
the days of ywinge malmsteen and Billy cobham are over. Shit if Jimi Hendrix came out now he probably couldn't get a deal. Skill with instruments gets you a studio musician's job, composition is much more valuable now, and much more fun. Most instrument players that are out there are just competant enough to play their music, which is the real selling point. Alicia Keys isn't a stellar piano player, when she first came out you could hear elem,ents of the first songs they teach you on piano in her tracks. She's better now, but she won't be winning any prizes for her playing, it is her songs and voice that get her the attention.
By QUESTOR006 F.U
Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:32 am
i live in the bay and i love an old 90s eastcoast sound im a purist you can keep your synth i freak samples all day and day and people try to down play the art form that took over the world in less than 30 years sound to me like you met some one thats mad cus thier son is on some slim shady and not pantara lol
one to grow on there are a shit load of beat styles they all fall uder the name of hip hop
one to grow on there are a shit load of beat styles they all fall uder the name of hip hop
QUESTOR of f.u.inc/we put the f.u back in fun
By elmacaco
Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:55 am
it's true, unless you are yoyoma, you need to write good songs. No one will sit through a crappy song to hear a great solo, except for us diggers, and we'll probably cop it in the clearance bin.
By cyrus
Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:51 am
jaem wrote:cy...
some cat named ikke made a stupid comment about sampling
I essentially repeated his comment and was trying to poke fun at the fact he is bashing sampling on a forum of sample based producers
that's like going on a feminist forum and telling bad jokes,
ie "What do you do when the dishwasher is broke......smack her"
his name was ike so i made the tina turner reference...I thought at least some ppl would catch on....I guess not
I get the feeling most ppl in here are way under 18
oh well
haha
By Blue Haze
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:24 pm
It`s all forms of Dance music and yes dance music is mostly build on samples. Be it you replayed the part yourself, had a session musician play it, got it off Vinylistics sample CDs, Roland 808, or your a salvation army el cheapo lp or public library. I see the only difference it that the technology it inexpensive from the 80`s and 90s when you had to go to a recording studio and had the engineer do all the shit for ya. Sampling music may be an more appropiate name. But hip hop and funk go hand and hand hence the bassline with the drums.
I would say recording a sound it easy be it on a MD, DAW, or into a sampler it the capturing process. But don`t forget hip hop and I would say all electronic dance music was started and built by djs, remixing, extending, and reinventing the music. Which is how all of this started, djs remixing club hits, sorting all the boring shit and recreate all of the lost, forgetten, and overlooked music and sounds.
Music schools cant teach one to developed that sonic ear ( Flava in ya Ear), musician`s aren`t trained to manipulate sounds your different timbres, frequencies (bass how long can you go) and the blending of various beds of ethnic, genres, and time periods. Without the introduction of samplers and the creativity of the artists and pioneers using these tools music as we know it wouldn`t exist today. Now I know many on this board maybe couldn`t imagine a world prior to the Falrlight and midi in pop music and the record execs wish they could turn back the hands of time; but, know that the seasons may change, the tools become more advance, and the public taste may be fickle that using samples to make music is here to stay.
The only problem is the MPCist (Roger Linn) talk understanding how to use the samples.
Someone should have asked how many people know how, and understand how to use samples to make great music and stop jerking about with garabage. How many users could have take something and change it into something that the public would appreciate and value as worthy to listen, dance, and treasure in their music collection 5 yrs from now.
I would say recording a sound it easy be it on a MD, DAW, or into a sampler it the capturing process. But don`t forget hip hop and I would say all electronic dance music was started and built by djs, remixing, extending, and reinventing the music. Which is how all of this started, djs remixing club hits, sorting all the boring shit and recreate all of the lost, forgetten, and overlooked music and sounds.
Music schools cant teach one to developed that sonic ear ( Flava in ya Ear), musician`s aren`t trained to manipulate sounds your different timbres, frequencies (bass how long can you go) and the blending of various beds of ethnic, genres, and time periods. Without the introduction of samplers and the creativity of the artists and pioneers using these tools music as we know it wouldn`t exist today. Now I know many on this board maybe couldn`t imagine a world prior to the Falrlight and midi in pop music and the record execs wish they could turn back the hands of time; but, know that the seasons may change, the tools become more advance, and the public taste may be fickle that using samples to make music is here to stay.
The only problem is the MPCist (Roger Linn) talk understanding how to use the samples.
Someone should have asked how many people know how, and understand how to use samples to make great music and stop jerking about with garabage. How many users could have take something and change it into something that the public would appreciate and value as worthy to listen, dance, and treasure in their music collection 5 yrs from now.
By dubmunkey
Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:18 am
why does no one understand sarcasm on this board!??!?!??!?!??!?!
>>>>>>>>>>
not when you dont use the sarcasm emoticon
seriously though i dont think anyone gave it any thought- probably skipped past it as it didnt realte to the thread
greg
>>>>>>>>>>
not when you dont use the sarcasm emoticon
seriously though i dont think anyone gave it any thought- probably skipped past it as it didnt realte to the thread
greg
By dubmunkey
Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:22 am
why does no one understand sarcasm on this board!??!?!??!?!??!?!
>>>>>>>>>>
not when you dont use the sarcasm emoticon
seriously though i dont think anyone gave it any thought- probably skipped past it as it didnt relate to the thread
under 18? QUESTOR006 F.U obviously is but most nippers hang out in the 1k, your music and off topic forums.....
greg
>>>>>>>>>>
not when you dont use the sarcasm emoticon
seriously though i dont think anyone gave it any thought- probably skipped past it as it didnt relate to the thread
under 18? QUESTOR006 F.U obviously is but most nippers hang out in the 1k, your music and off topic forums.....
greg
By Blue Haze
Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:29 am
dubmunkey wrote:why does no one understand sarcasm on this board!??!?!??!?!??!?!
>>>>>>>>>>
not when you dont use the sarcasm emoticon
seriously though i dont think anyone gave it any thought- probably skipped past it as it didnt relate to the thread
under 18? QUESTOR006 F.U obviously is but most nippers hang out in the 1k, your music and off topic forums.....
greg
Who are you talking too and what do you mean by nippers? Be plain man and speak your piece.
????????????????????
If you got something ugly you want to saw step up and say it like a true racist? hmmmn