whats the secret??

^^^true.

Its kind of a give and take for me. I understand why people dont like the repetative nature of a hiphop beat. But at the same time its also why I like hiphop.

I think there is a differance between repetative groove, and just **** annoying. Repetative and annoying are sometimes synonmous, and i dont think they should be.

I dont think repetative is bad.........i think its menontinous thats bad. The differance being that one is annoying and one is not. No Doubt, Sometimes theres a fine line....... but when you start adding subtle things you can really make something more complex than it is and make it not menotinous. Some loops you can ride for a 3 minute song without change ups.....some you cant. Its knowing what you have to do to extend the ones that cant.

I think the most important factor is creativity. If you start experiemebnting and dont stick to a cookie cut formula, you can make your tracks more interesting, even if you are just using a 2 bar loop.

Thats what all the big producers are talking about when they say "producing and beat making are 2 differant things" Anyone can lay down a beat, but making a song is differant. You gotta be able to keep the listeners attention through the whole song.....if you think about it, thats the bottom line.

With hiphop i think sometimes all you really need are some good lyrics and they can really carry a nice 2bar loop. But if they cant you gotta get creative to trick the ear.

Try listening to your 2bars, and when you get that natural feeling where you expect a change, try and switch it up there. I think most people have a natural internal clock that tells them where you want change up. Like where you expect a chorus, where you expect something to drop, etc. Get intune with that natural feeling.

peace

^^^^ Damn strait! And way to clarify such a fine line from all the right angles.


Intuition is king for sure! Its the best way to spin your records and the best way to produce hands down. Just apply technical knowhow and technique and let it take you. Its the balance and constant inclusion of these three elements that will def solidify and streamline your work nomater what your doing. Just keep them insight at all times.

In better light of the subject another method I employ is copying the original sequence of say 2 bars, 8 times, and keep the original in a seperate sequence so I can reference the original vibe. After I have done that, I will record each time even before any practice so I wont loose any of my musical guestures reguardless of quality. Once I have one of sequences down i'll repeat on each of the sequences. The reason to do this is, because you tend to loose alot of great patterns just trying to find the just the right one, that once you get a single 2 bar ssequence down you have actualy made enough unrecorded patterns to create a whole track. After you get those rough sequences down then play with them in song mode or next sequence mode to test out how they work together. Have your note pad handy so you write wht the best combonations are and what type of section of a song that each sequence would be most suitable. Once you get that all out, just develope each sequence the rest of the way to fit your idea of its purpose, but make sure to keep track mutes in mind for when you sustain that two bar sequence.

threshed~

Threshed that is such a good tip I can;t believe it. I go through so many patterns just practicing and then i come up with the one I like the best but it would be interesting to go back and check the other ones.

I'm trying that next time.

.cyrus. threshed man you guys just blew me the phuck out the water those tips and discription you guys gave hit my hold point of this thread ,
you guy's been watching me make my beats or what .

you guys this is what i do as well like you said cyrus you can make a two bar loop that just scream dont phuck with me just love me and leave it alone, but because i dont rap and the emcee i work with at time s dont rap about what i'm thinking when i make the beat it just makes me add to it..

threshed i think thats why i can't get this down right , because thats what i do i first make this ill first sequence then when it comes time to to make a song i mute everything and just turn on and off tracks buy copyin them to the next sequence so i dont realy work from the original sequnce.

so i know what i have to do to see if this will improve my beat making productions,
i would asume it is different for making a house track then right cause i basiclly do the same on my house productions...

man this has open up a vision of what i should be doin instead of what i've been doin...

we need to sticky this up top cause there's alot of great tips and techniques for sure... thanks fellas keep this hread going with this valuable info....
thank you fam

In my opinion everybody's tips are good, but I think most of you are looking at beat making, and producing from an instrumentalist's viewpoint, in a way the process should be reversed, the beat should be tailored around the artist's vocals, otherwise your song's structure is arbitrary, unless your producing instrumental type music, but even then take jazz for example the vocal is replaced by the soloist playing there trumpet or whatever, and it need to be a collaboration, you can't just expect the mc to do change ups, at the whim of your beat, not because they don't have the skills, but because there flow should have just as much emotion and substance as your beat. The beatmaker should come up with that hot pattern regardless of the other artist, but the song should be structured, by both.

boaty is on point, only rhythm dominated or breakbeat tunes rely on the beat first- you can tell a lot of rn'b tunes and pop music which employs hiphop/dance sounds come up with the musical structure first- melody, hook, lyric and then add the beat later- at leats thats what it sounds like..i imagine it to be a bit like holland-dozier-holland or gamble and huff where the songs is thrashed out at a piano and then musicians/beat makers are brought in...i doubt baby face wastes much time programming beats..

greg

dj e.d.e wrote:i would asume it is different for making a house track then right cause i basiclly do the same on my house productions...

i make House as well bro, i think the fundamentals are the same cos i know what u mean about feeling the need to add stuff when it sounds okay.

the way i stay focussed is not to think that i'm ever finished, and that whatever i come up with is constantly a work in progress so if i'm feeling a minimal 2 bar loop i'll leave it and concentrate on how i could change it up in a next sequence

something that gets me everytime i'm out in a club is how the tracks that really get me going are usually so simple in terms of b-line, chords/melody and the real magic is in structure, eg drop one clap at the end of the 4th bar or some random extra kicks, a repetitive cowbell driving the whole tune smacks it when you drop from chorus to verse again

last night i spent 3 hours listening to the same 4 bar loop, muting tracks here n there to see what sounds catchy & how i will end up putting it all together. i woke and couldn't wait to hear that shyt again!

also i've copied the chords and melodies from my favorite artists and they sound great but nowhere near the final thing, that's when you realise how much effort they actually put in with all the extra things that make up the final product

it's always a WORK IN PROGRESS!

it's always a WORK IN PROGRESS!
>>>>>>>>>>

second that!!

greg

some great tips here guys.

SWING

cyrus wrote:1. Groove has alot to do with a track. If youre grooving you get less sick of a 2 bar loop. Listen to dr.dre **** you(chronic 2001).

.

Cyrus - good advice, especially the groove part. people here ask about swing alot, but swing is less important than using a matching drum kit and tuining the drums so they really carry the melody. a real drummer wouldnt use twenty different drums and layer em all fuced up just cause so and so layers claps. thats str8 amateur and to many reconized producers do this. this is something i caught on to recently.

Anyone else besides Dove notice how amateur some of the beats in popular hip hop sound? i trip off this when I listen to the radio.

me too, similar sounds and simple patterns. Thus is pop music

BassLINE wrote:Many would probably agree that the secret lies in chopping samples and arranging them to make something dope. It's like putting together a puzzle.

If you're a good producer you're already thinking many moves ahead. Sequencing/arranging should be second nature to you. It's all about putting together the individual sequences in an order that you pictured in your head.

There's no secret. Some are better visionaries than others in terms of how things should be laid out but it's no secret.

SO TRUE!

That's what it's all about.

dubmunkey wrote:yeah but real knowledge not just regurgiatated manual pages or anything like that....

Exactly, I wish there threads like this more often.

People are lazy to read their manuals.

dj e.d.e. wrote:we need to sticky this up top cause there's alot of great tips and techniques for sure...

Definitely.

BassLINE wrote:Secret? What secret?

Many would probably agree that the secret lies in chopping samples and arranging them to make something dope. It's like putting together a puzzle.

If you're a good producer you're already thinking many moves ahead. Sequencing/arranging should be second nature to you. It's all about putting together the individual sequences in an order that you pictured in your head.

There's no secret. Some are better visionaries than others in terms of how things should be laid out but it's no secret.

This is bllsht, second nature???!!??
Seq and arranging is just like any other part of production the more you work at it the better you get.
The reason so many people find this more difficult is because it's not as enjoyable as making that first seq.
Therefore a lot of people don't do it enough. We've all made millions, well thousands of beats but how many of those have actually been sequenced into complete tracks?
I promise you, if you only ever made one beat and sequenced it out a thousand different ways, you'd be better at arranging then beat making.
Obviously no ones going to do this but the point is to practice.
Set goals to finish your next ten beats, make them into songs.
You will see improvement in every one, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PART OF THE PRODUCTION PROCESS.

The key for me when arranging is, keep it interesting.
If that means finding ten more samples that work with the beat then it means finding ten more samples.
If it means completely changing the drum sounds half way thro...
you get the idea.
If i'm making a beat for an MC, I don't get lazy and say, well the MC will keep it interesting, I make the track interesting without the MC and merely treat his voice as another instrument.

If you listen to all the producers you like, you'll see they have their own particular arranging skills and these are not skills they were born with, they 've worked hard at their arranging skills, after all it's a massive part of the production process.

A good example is DJ Shadow, check out his arrangments (esp. Private Press) and how he keeps instrumental hip hop tracks interesting without an MC. If you read interviews with Shadow you'll see that this is something he's really studied and worked hard at.
El-P is a good example too, whether or not you like his music, check out his arrangments.