Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
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By JamesJeffery Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:13 pm
Trying to save what I've done to disk. Now, I know how to save, the manual cleared that up (manual is awful btw) but I need to know "what to save".

On the Instruments.Track section I have 6 instruments. 1 is the beat, others are samples.

When I go to command > instrument > save instrument does that save them all or just the selected instrument?

I assumed it saves the 1 although the manual isn't too clear from what I've researched. When I select 2 and go to save the instrument it says not enough disk space. A bit strange as the samples used on the 1st are just a kick, snare and hat.

Am I going to need more than one disk per track?
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By Lampdog Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:05 pm
haven't messed with an eps in forever but seeing as that was the precursor to my asr10....

save instrument -> save sample on mpc.
save bank -> save .PGM on mpc, bank remembers all your instrument placements.
save song -> save .ALL on mpc.
save sequence -> save .SEQ on mpc.
There is no save track. You place instruments to tracks upon loading.

I have an asr10 manual so things may vary ever so slightly.

Ensoniq ASR-10 help, for ASRonians.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=106526&hilit=asronians

8)
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By JamesJeffery Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:45 pm
Lampdog wrote:haven't messed with an eps in forever but seeing as that was the precursor to my asr10....

save instrument -> save sample on mpc.
save bank -> save .PGM on mpc, bank remembers all your instrument placements.
save song -> save .ALL on mpc.
save sequence -> save .SEQ on mpc.
There is no save track. You place instruments to tracks upon loading.

I have an asr10 manual so things may vary ever so slightly.

Ensoniq ASR-10 help, for ASRonians.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=106526&hilit=asronians

8)


A so "save instrument" is just the one sample. Cant understand why the disk is full from saving the 1st instrument (kick, snare, hh). Wish the manual explained it properly. Scared to turn it off now LOL!
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By Lampdog Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:05 pm
There's no save individual sample.

Save Instrument is the whole instrument you've placed.

If you put several different samples in instrument 1 then that is what's saved inside of save instrument, maybe I should stated that. All samples on instrument 1 will be saved as a single collective instrument. Maybe that's a better explanation. Maybe no memory is left because you have more than 1.44mb of samples in instrument 1.
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By peterpiper Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:16 pm
JamesJeffery wrote:
Lampdog wrote:haven't messed with an eps in forever but seeing as that was the precursor to my asr10....

save instrument -> save sample on mpc.
save bank -> save .PGM on mpc, bank remembers all your instrument placements.
save song -> save .ALL on mpc.
save sequence -> save .SEQ on mpc.
There is no save track. You place instruments to tracks upon loading.

I have an asr10 manual so things may vary ever so slightly.

Ensoniq ASR-10 help, for ASRonians.
http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php ... =asronians

8)


A so "save instrument" is just the one sample. Cant understand why the disk is full from saving the 1st instrument (kick, snare, hh). Wish the manual explained it properly. Scared to turn it off now LOL!


Just an idea.
I dont own an EPS but AFAIK it chops up samples the same way my Casio FZ1 does. Copying a sample does not really make a copy but a "ghost copy" and you can change start and endpoit etc on that ghost copy. Thats cool but if your drums (1 kick, 1 snare, 1 hat) are out of a ...lets say 5 second long drumbreak, the rest of the drumbreak will stay in memory although you dont use it.

With that said: Are your drumsamples out of a long break and did you copy the sample with this method??


I dont know if the EPS got a function to get rid of the unused samplematerial. On my Casio I'll have to save each sample and then load it again to change the "ghost"status to normal and cut away the unused material.

peace
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By Lampdog Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Lemme rethink this.....

save instrument -> saves all samples in a single instrument and their assignments in that individual instrument.

save bank -> saves all instruments and remembers their respective instrument assignments.

save song +all -> saves all sequences into one file, same as .ALL on mpc.

save current sequence -> same as .SEQ on mpc.

Maybe that will clear things up, before you turn if off, save bank and I think there is also a "save song + all"

I don't remember if the eps had the copy params + data of copy params like on asr10. Copy params will be the ghost copy that P is talking about. You can place that copy params onto a different key, you can adjust everything about it, BUT the actual and physical data is STILL tied to the original so if you physically cut something, the original gets cut too. If you just adjust settings, points, filters and
virtual stuff your safe. The params copy takes up I think 5kb of mem, not alot at all. If you want a totally independent copy+data that will be completely separate from the original data and you can pyhsically change it however you want and it won't affect the original at all, this method also takes up double the space as it's a true data copy.
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By JamesJeffery Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:51 pm
I'll give it a try in a sec and see if I got it right.

@peter now, I played the drum samples into the EPS as single hits. On some of the samples I have altered the start and end time but I did notice in the manual just that you can truncate the sample. I've not done that but will do it now before I save to save space.

Hopefully I get it right first time ha.
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By Lampdog Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:54 pm
Yep, truncate is a physical chop.

Memory management is a big thing on these keyboards.

Another thing I learned a long while back, in the case of a deep sub bass wave I used to resample it to the lowest possible sample rate, it will sound exactly the same but the physical data size will drop significantly :lol: 8) .
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By JamesJeffery Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:30 pm
Lampdog wrote:Yep, truncate is a physical chop.

Memory management is a big thing on these keyboards.

Another thing I learned a long while back, in the case of a deep sub bass wave I used to resample it to the lowest possible sample rate, it will sound exactly the same but the physical data size will drop significantly :lol: 8) .


Ahhh so that's how you do it. I waas trying to find how you lower the sample rate. I know you can do it before recording, but I wanted to do it on the samples I recorded. Done it now :D

Chops down to 12bit, sounds dirty as f**k and I got a tonne of space left.
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By tapedeck Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:04 pm
yea - you are really going to learn to love truncate + sample rate reduction - not working with a lot of memory there. if you can get the sample rate right while you record - even better as you dont have to process later.

saving a bank is a good idea but i think you have to save the instruments as well - the bank is just a reference to those instruments.

you'll very quickly see how the eps is more designed as an instrument 'emulator' vs a drum sampler.
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By nod records Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:12 am
i've owned the eps, eps 16+ and asr-10. i love and miss all of them. each one has its own sound and feel. the filters in all of them are amazing. for putting high pass filters on breaks, to get the shuffle, then boom bap a kick and snare over it (ex. any old wu-tang album produced by the rza when he was still using the eps 16+ or asr-10) low pass filters on kicks and basses get you that knock and super full warm low end. the effects on the 16+ and asr-10 are amazing! the sequencer on all of them is real nice, different than the mpc, but once you get use to it you can freak it. recording with no quantize, then quantizing after and being able to compare the 2 is great. changing the sample rate before you sample to get more sample time and a real grimey sound. all kinds of things you can do with these machines.

i'll give you a couple tricks that will help you out...

learn how to use the copy params only feat. you can take a long sample, then copy params only. what that does is make a ghost copy and doesn't use up any sample time. so you can make tons of copies this way to chop your sample up without using up all your sample time. you just have to assign the root note and keep the key range the same as the root note for each copy, so you can have the same sample laid out on 8 keys in a row. then you can change the start and end points for each sample. you can change the root note for each one too, to tune them down or up to taste. that's a big secret a lot of ensoniq heads don't even know about. you can really chop ish up and not use up all your sample time. really helps on the eps and eps 16+. great on the asr-10 too, but at least the asr-10 has like 3 mins of sample time with the maxed out memory.

another trick is make just a 1 or 2 bar sequence to get drums going and tight, then append the sequence (same is copying bars in the mpc) so if you append a 1 bar seq it will make it 2 bars, append again it will make it 4 bars, and so on and so on. makes it easier to get things going.

also a great thing about all of them is, you can edit the start and end points of your samples while you sequence is playing. really helps with creativity. some time you lay some drums down, then lay a sample over top, then just start playing with the start and end points of the sample while the sequence is playing. you stumble upon some cool ish this way. things you might not have even thought of.

like i said, i've owned them all. i never liked ensoniqs saving methods. i never bother saving to floppy or scsi on any of them. i wouldn't even waste my money picking up the scsi for your 16+. what i would do is... bang the beat out on them. have a bunch of different sequences. put them in song mode sometime, most times just leave them as different sequences, then midi it up to pro tools and track each sound out separate. that way you have your sequences and sounds in your DAW all separated and you can just arrange them in your DAW and save it. i found that to be the best and easiest way of working.

you lucked out on that 16+. i bought another 16+ about a year ago from some old head off craigslist. i tested it at his place and of course it worked fine. when i took it home and really got busy on it, it started messing up. the eps and eps 16+ are known to get very hot and start to glitch out when you have them on for a long time, just a heads up. now i'm stuck with a broken 16+, which i can send out to possibly get fixed or trade in towards and asr-10, which i may do.

in time i'd like to get them all back again... the eps, eps 16+ and asr-10. they are great machines. using them as standalone sampler/sequencers or even midi slaving them to mpc's, which a lot of people do, to chop your samples, use the filters & effects, but sequence with the mpc.

DAMN! NOW I WANT ALL MY ENSONIQ'S BACK!!!

hope that helps. get busy on it.
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By JamesJeffery Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:38 am
@nod records cheers for the detailed response! Much appreciated.

I think I may have experienced some glitching yesterday. I had 5 instruments and they was playing fine but when I pressed play I could only hear the beat and some of my samples wasn't triggering, and some, such as the kick were missing. It sounded like I'd ran out of voices. When I came back to it 15 minutes later it was fine.

Where does it get hot? I read on another forum about them overheating but I couldn't feel any heat on the machine. I have this huge bulky power converter as mine is US. I dare touch that thing it looks like it's ready to electrocute me.

I'm usually a quantize whore, and then add swing later, but I was really digging recording naturally. The beat I had going yesterday was really flowing. There was some very slight off beats that really gave the beat a head nod feel.

I didn't get to save anything though. I like the idea of tracking out to a DAW, or even just recording each instrument and bar into the DAW. Might end up doing that. When I cleared all the samples I wasn't using, and downsampled I had just enough space to save but parts of the track were too dirty, sort of lost it's feel.

Overall though I am very impressed with it. Still have a lot to learn but the sound that comes out of it sounds very warm. I done the same loop/bar in my DAW and was comparing the sound and there was a very noticeable difference.

Also, you mentioned start and end points whilst it's playing. Well, I was amazed when I was trying this yesterday with a sample I was getting things that I'd never even heard in the track. I love the way the EPS chops the segments behind the scenes and you can can shift the start time using the numbers on the far right (sorry don't know the terminology for those numbers yet .... segments maybe?). Pretty much whatever I changed it to it would remain on beat and give me a different result each time.

I've not yet got to song mode though. Few weeks of playing and I'll master this beast.

Finally to add, the keys feel very slightly weighted. They have a really nice feel to them. I don't usually like hitting keys to trigger samples, but it feels natural on the EPS 16.
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By nod records Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:28 pm
try the quantize on it too. you can quantize after you lay your sound into the sequence.

hit command, then the track button. scroll to quantize. then you can select 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, etc... like the mpc. pick your setting, i suggest trying 1/16 to start out or if you're working in double time, dupstep tempo like 140bpm, then try 1/8. then you hit yes. it will let you hear what you laid in with the quantize you selected, it also has no to the left of it where you can hear your original unquantized version. you select either no or yes. no if you like what you laid in not quantized, yes if you like and want to keep the quantize.

i suggest starting with 1 or 2 bar drum grooves and quantizing them to with 1/16 or 1/8, depending on what tempo you're working at. then append the sequence after it's tight to make it 4 or 8 bars so you can lay your bass, samples etc... on top. with basses and samples try the quantize too. sometimes it tightens things up in a good way, sometime with basses and samples it's good to leave them unquantized.

def play with some basic boom bap and breaks, to get a 1 or 2 bar drum groove going. quantize them drums, append that sequence and start laying in your bass and samples. trust me, you'll thank me for those tips.

i think the eps 16+ has a tap tempo too. i know the asr-10 does and a lot of people don't even know about it. if you got a break sampled, hit the key and tap on the yes key while you're in sequence mode. this should adjust the tempo like tap tempo on the mpc. the eps only works in whole numbers (ie. 86bpm, 93bpm, 70bpm, 140bpm). it doesn't have in between numbers like the mpc (ie 86.34bpm or 98.72bpm). with some good chopping and fine tuning the pitch, you can get things looped up quick or just tap a tempo you hear in your head and get busy.

keep me posted on your progress. it's agreat machine. spend some time using just the 16+ and you'll get a lot out of it. if i think of any more tips & tricks, i'll post them up here for you.

don't forget a lot of dope artists used the eps (rza, el-p, portishead, massive attack, tricky, a tribe called quest, havoc, black moon and i heard even aphex twin used an eps 16+ heavy in his early production, which is pretty mind blowing. if you search on google for aphex twin ensoniq eps 16+, there should be some old interviews that pop up with him talking about it.

here's a link to an interview with Warp Records artists AUTECHRE. they talk about how them and aphex twin modified their eps 16+ to do all kinds of crazy things.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... echre.html

AUTECHRE ON ENSONIQ SAMPLERS

Sean: "We use modified software on the sampler for live work. We found some nerd in America who writes interesting software."

Rob: "We were then able to take the sampler input and convert it to a thru for a start. Then we were able to use the software to write our own effects in the EPS."

Sean: "It's even better than the [newer, more powerful] ASR-10. You can select samples independently from the sequencer, which means that as the sequencer is running you can select your sample and edit it, turning it into a synth really. It's already got a decent OS in there, but it's really easy to modify as well.

Rob: "It's really only the American manufacturers, Ensoniq and Emu, that turn their gear into synths and not just sample playback machines."

Sean: "The EPS is just like using the Prophecy really. Everybody beats on about how smart the Prophecy is but we've been able to do that with samples for years. Much of the multiple LFO routings and the assigning of controllers to modulate controllers and so on, we can do on the EPS -- setting up quite elaborate patches on it really quickly. It's weird that Ensoniq is getting ignored in preference to Akai, which admittedly is a tighter more accurate sampler, but it still lacks a lot of scope for exploration, you can't really do a lot with it. With the EPS and the ASR-10 we're still finding things, like changing aspects of effects that you're not supposed to be able to alter."

Although when you originally bought the EPS you obviously didn't know what you know now.

Sean: "No, we bought it because we got a good deal."

Rob: "And it had on-board effects. We thought, 'it's only got two outputs but then it does have effects -- f**k it, we've only got this much money'. Before that the only sampler we had was 1.4 seconds worth on our Boss delay, so anything on top of that was a luxury."

Sean: "By necessity we've struck up a good working relationship with our samplers. The only current sampler that we would get, knowing what we know now, is probably the Kurzweil. It's the only thing that I've used that intrigues me.

Rob: "Emus as well, they seem to have a lot to them."

Sean: "Just in terms of the editability if you put a sampler into a synth you know you'll be buying all those synth facilities, whereas if you're just buying a sampler then that can be limiting. I think a lot of manufacturers still see the sampler as being limited in those respects, which is bullshit, considering the amount of DSP chips that they pack in there. There's so much you can potentially do with them."
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By vinyl_junkie_1620 Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:32 pm
When I got my EPS-16+ I had problems with it crashing on a daily basis, really pissed me off. You were lucky if you could use it for a hour without crashing.
I was reading it was some heat issue any way I contacted a engineer I know who fixes synths and he said to check the PSU for dry joints.

Any way I re-soldered the connectors and a few caps, cleaned the pin contacts with a fiberglass pen and shiz... Since then not crashed once

One thing I hate about mine though is no SCSI and that it's a pain to save compared to Akai's (Rack's and MPC's)
Which is a shame really, I mainly use it as a master keyboard now rather than sampling
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By nod records Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:40 am
usually heats up on the right side, where it says eps 16+ on the top right.

my friend built a fan for his eps. he took a computer fan and mounted it on some wood, then put velcro on it, then velcro on the eps and had the fan hanging to the back right. that's going a bit out there, but if you get a small fan and have it blowing on the right side, it def helps.

the eps and eps 16+ had heating issues, the asr-10 doesn't. the asr-10 runs like a tank and doesn't get hot like that.