Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
By bobbybenson Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:18 am
I read somewhere that when tracking out, the gain should be all the way up on your gear (so +12 on the MPC).

Does this sound correct?

I'm just trying to get a good level into pro-tools when tracking out the individual drums.
By Jenre Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:21 pm
You want to track into Pro Tools at an average of about -12db on the faders. That will give you enough headroom when it comes to mixing and make the job a whole lot easier.

As far as the output level on the MPC, I'm not sure how much that really matters tbh, so long as you aren't clipping into Pro Tools. Someone else may be able to give you better advice on that
By bobbybenson Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:53 am
Thanks for the responses.

I believe I read it in the Remixers Bible or something like that.

Im tracking directly into my interface nothing in between.

The gain is up on the MPC but I make sure not to clip in Pro-Tools. I might peak around -6
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By SimonInAustralia Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:32 am
bobbybenson wrote:I read somewhere that when tracking out, the gain should be all the way up on your gear (so +12 on the MPC).

Does this sound correct?

It sounds nearly correct.

What it is referring to, is that when an instrument has an output volume control, like the Stereo Volume knob on the front panel MPC60, that it should be set to full level when recording.

This gives the best/maximum signal to noise ratio at the output of the instrument, to be recorded into Pro Tools.

You then set the Pro Tools recording gain level, through whatever controls you have on the input to the Pro Tools audio interface, to get a good strong level without clipping into Pro Tools.

With the MPC60 individual outputs, what this means is that you should run the individual outputs in the MPC60 individual out mixer, at full level (100) on the onscreen graphic volume slider. Then set the recording gain on your Pro Tools audio interface so that you get maximum level in Pro Tools without clipping.

You do not need to leave any headroom, you would usually want the level in Pro Tools to be close to the top of the meter at the loudest point of the recording.

When recording at 24 bit it is not as much of an issue, you can leave a little headroom if you want, but there isn't really any need to, you just turn down the faders in Pro Tools to the appropriate level when mixing.

With 16 bit, you really want to be getting the signal as close to clipping as you can, so you are not wasting any bit depth and ending up with a compromised sound.
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By Wal Martian Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:54 pm
Just remember Pro Tools meters faders have up to +12dB of gain so you don't want your signal close to the top of the meter (red), but close to hitting 0 (yellow). I still recommend leaving a bit of headroom on the way in, even if it's -3dB.
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Last edited by Wal Martian on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By SimonInAustralia Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:18 pm
Wal Martian wrote:Just remember Pro Tools meters have up to +12dB of gain so you don't want your signal close to the top of the meter (red), but close to hitting 0 (yellow).

I do not agree with that, I think that you do want the signal close to the top of the meter (red).

Close to the top of the meter (red) is 0dbFS, 0 on the meter is not yellow at all.

You seem to be confusing dB marks on the Pro Tools faders with some sort of audio level meter, or something.

The Pro Tools audio level meters do not have up to 12dB of gain, the Pro Tools faders do.

The marks that go from infinity up to +12dB are on the faders, that is how much gain is, or isn't, being applied to the signal after it goes through Pro Tools. They are not showing a level of the audio signal.

The level of the signal being recorded is indicated by the marks on the right of the audio level meter, which goes from -60 to a maximum of 0dbFS, that is why it has a 0 at the top.

So close to 0dBFS, where you want it to be, is at the top of the audio level meter, not somewhere in the yellow where 0 is marked on the fader.

When recording, you want the signal as close as possible to 0dBFS, which is as close as possible to the top of the meter (red).

It doesn't matter how much gain the faders can apply to the signal, you generally want the signal to meter close to 0dBFS/red on the loudest part of the recording.

If you do want to see what level it is peaking at, you can change the green vol 0.0 display, at the bottom of the fader, to display a resettable indicator of the peak audio level instead of the fader/gain position.
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By Wal Martian Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:14 pm
I haven't used PT in a few years but I remember recording some vocals looking at the meter on the right hand side of the fader, assuming the top was 0 and still getting clipping. Again, I'm not a huge PT user so I may be remembering wrong. I'll still go with headroom is your friend, especially in the digital domain. You can always slap bombfactory on a -10dB signal and get it to the volume you need, I think of it as a safeguard against bad sounding digital distortion. If you record everything at 0dB, you're just making it harder on yourself when it comes time to mix IMO.

http://www.puremix.net/video/recording-levels.html <- at 0:25 it shows a signal at the recording level I suggest.
edit: I had this experience with a PTHD rig.
SoS wrote:Because Pro Tools LE systems use the computer host CPUs to undertake all the audio processing, the LE mixer employs 32-bit floating-point arithmetic. Without getting into all the maths behind this, it means that there is loads of internal headroom in the LE mixer. The HD mixer is a different ball game, as it has to use the TDM chips on the Pro Tools cards, and these chips don’t support floating-point arithmetic. So, to be safe, the Pro Tools designers use a 48-bit mixer to provide the appropriate headroom. Even so, you can still run into problems, as we shall see. You are much less likely to run into headroom problems on an LE system,

source -http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/pt_0610.htm
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By Wal Martian Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:59 pm
SoS wrote:By recording in a digital system with a signal level averaging around -18 or -20 dBFS, you are simply replicating the same headroom margin as was always standard in analogue systems, and that headroom margin was arrived at through 100 years of development for very good practical reasons.
Furthermore, the noise floor of a typical analogue console might be around -90dBu (-100dBu was always the holy grail). That gives a total dynamic range of 90 + 24 = 114dB, which happens to be the same as a typical budget 24-bit digital interface. The very best interfaces and converters are currently providing dynamic ranges of around 124dB, which is the same as the holy grail of analogue gear.
So working with average levels of around -20dBFS or so is fine and proper, works in exactly the same way as analogue, and will generally make your life easier when it comes to mixing and processing.

source- http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/a ... 0910-1.htm
Bob Katz wrote:The peak meter is currently being seriously misused. Remember that the upper ranges of the peak meter were designed for headroom, not for level. A compressed piece of music peaking to -6 dBFS can sound much louder than an uncompressed work peaking to 0. Mixing and mastering engineers, use compression for creative purposes, but why not master the CD at a lower peak level, and monitor at the same gain you used for your last CD? There's no reason to fill up all those bits if the CD sounds loud enough. Or, useless limiting if you insist on peaking to 0 dBFS. Too many producers are unskilled meter readers; they seem to need all those lights flashing. Try working at a fixed monitor level, with the meter hidden from view. It'll be a very educational experience.

source- http://www.digido.com/articles-and-demo ... ssion.html
By m56p87 Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:09 pm
I agree with Simon. I would track in close to 0db to use the full bit depth. Then if you wanna mix it further I would bring the FADERS down to -12db to leave headroom. Destructively recording at -12db/20db would just be wasting data...
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By Wal Martian Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:10 pm
Steven Slate wrote:To have the same amount of "headroom" as we do on the SSL we must create a reference of 0VU or 1.23 volts at -20 from 0DBFS or the top of the Digital scale.

So if you simply place the good old trim plugin as the very first plugin, you now have the ability to adjust your tracks to our Mixing (+4/1.23 volt) reference IE -20. Just like you did on the SSL. You have have the same amount of headroom. Now with your tracks properly gain staged, you can add EQ/dynamic plugins and not run out of headroom. You can also insert hardware and they will operate much better as they are operating at the level they were designed to operate at.

Plugins use the same reference at real equipment. Never try and drive them to the top of the Digital scale. Don't try and make your mix look like a master. You don't do that on an analog console, so why do we do it ITB?

The answer is simple. DAW meters suck Butt. There should be a meter mode in all DAW's that makes the meter at 3/4 scale equal -20 at 1.23 volts. Just like the old VU. This way, novices will quit corn-holeing their levels.

Something to think about. The noise floor of an analog desk is about -75 DB from our +4 reference. Our equivalent "problem level" below our -20 reference in digital is well over 100 DB. So please don't let people tell you analog has more "headroom" than digital. This is simply not true. Headroom is only relative to your noise floor below your reference. Remember if the volume is to low, turn up the darn speaker volume.

Running a Digital mix right to the top of the scale is like running your SSL mix buss where the VU meters are slammed all the way to the right and you are constantly hitting it at +25. No one will get a good sounding running the desk like that. You won’t get a good sounding mix in digital either.

source- http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... tored.html
Last edited by Wal Martian on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By m56p87 Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:56 pm
Wal Martian wrote:
m56p87 wrote:Destructively recording at -12db/20db would just be wasting data...

Recording at 0dB using as many bits as possible then turning it down to me seems more wasteful.


How does that work? Youll always be using the full bit depth of the recording. If you record data -20db you've lost bits you can NEVER get back. If you record close to 0 you always retain the full bit depth until you bounce the master.... If you attenuate the volume after a 0db recording your turning down the noise, if you record low and turn it up later your amplifying the noise...