Bass Notes Behind Kicks?

Hey guys I hope I'm asking this question in the right place. I've been doing a lot of research lately trying to figure out how to get my kicks to sit better with my bass notes and although there is tons articles on this topic, I still haven't been able to find the right advice. I've been studying the waveform's of a lot of instrumentals from producers like Kev Brown, Dilla, 9th Wonder, etc.. and I've noticed that when their bass notes play with their kicks, the bass notes seem to be nudged slightly behind the kick, yet the two of them together have a very uniform sound. I've tried nudging my bass notes behind my kick and it just doesn't sound as uniform as when they play at the same time, but when I play them at the same time the kick doesn't cut through as well. I know I could use parallel compression solve this but I'm trying to refrain from using it. So basically I was just wondering if you guys nudge your bass notes behind your kicks to make them work together, or if you prefer to have them hit at the same time? Any advice would be MUCH appreciated.

Wal Martian wrote:Use sidechain compression on the bass, using the kick drum as the 'key' or sidechain input. The bass will duck or get quieter when the kick drum hits.

When I said "I know I could use parallel compression to solve this but I'm trying to refrain from using it", I actually meant to say side-chain and not parallel. My mistake. Side-chaining has worked well for me in most cases but i don't want to always have to resort to using it. I'm trying to find a way to make a thumpy kick and warm bass note play together uniformly without using side-chain compression. When I look at the waveform's of beats with hard hitting kicks and bass notes that play at the same time, it seems as if the bass is delayed a little bit behind the kick and I'm just curious if this is what anyone does to allow their kicks to cut through rather than side-chaining. I really appreciate your feedback though thank you.

There are various things you can do to get your low end to function well together... However the effect it sounds like your describing is sidechain compression. Don't be stubborn mate

smellypants wrote:There are various things you can do to get your low end to function well together... However the effect it sounds like your describing is sidechain compression. Don't be stubborn mate

Yeah I'm probably just overthinking this. I am after a side-chain type of effect though. I just want to be able to have my kicks cut through without having to duck the bass

DruSoul wrote:

smellypants wrote:There are various things you can do to get your low end to function well together... However the effect it sounds like your describing is sidechain compression. Don't be stubborn mate

Yeah I'm probably just overthinking this. I am after a side-chain type of effect though. I just want to be able to have my kicks cut through without having to duck the bass

You can always try changing the attack points on your bass. I'm not too fond of the way the 2000XL handles envelopes, but on a synth they sure are nice to play with.

Sidechaining is one method however another method is looking through a meter to see what frequency the bass kick is hitting at vs the frequency of what your bassline is hitting at.

For example, say you had a basskick where the transient starts at 50hz, you're obviously not going to want to use a bass tone that clashes with that frequency. You can also use a cut off like Q filter or whatever else is equivalent to kill that eq completely.

First, are you really sure that they are in tune? Too many produces have no idea how to tune their percussion. It will help.

Second, make sure that they are in phase. Easiest way to do this is on a pc where you canesee the wave form of both the kick and the bass hit. Move the bass a few samples left or right so that it is in phase with the body of the kick. This can be hard sometimes, so using your ear is important too.

And a touch of side chain compessione or just reduce the volume of the bass note manually where the kick hits.

innovine wrote:First, are you really sure that they are in tune? Too many produces have no idea how to tune their percussion. It will help.

Second, make sure that they are in phase. Easiest way to do this is on a pc where you canesee the wave form of both the kick and the bass hit. Move the bass a few samples left or right so that it is in phase with the body of the kick. This can be hard sometimes, so using your ear is important too.

And a touch of side chain compessione or just reduce the volume of the bass note manually where the kick hits.

Yeah I usually tune my kicks to the tonic note of my track but in a lot of cases this causes my kicks to have the same fundamental frequency as my bass. In this situation do you think I'd be better off tuning my kick to the 5th or 7th note? Anyways thanks for the advice!

richie wrote:Sidechaining is one method however another method is looking through a meter to see what frequency the bass kick is hitting at vs the frequency of what your bassline is hitting at.

For example, say you had a basskick where the transient starts at 50hz, you're obviously not going to want to use a bass tone that clashes with that frequency. You can also use a cut off like Q filter or whatever else is equivalent to kill that eq completely.

Ah okay i'll keep that in mind. Preciate your feedback.

You can also determine the tune of the kick by looking at the frequency the kick actually hits at:



There are various plugins that you can use to monitor the frequency of every channel, then use your pitch shift to adjust it until it is in tune to what you want. Think about it as, if your kick is hitting at 49hz (G), your bassline isn't going to want to be at 49hz because it would drown out your kick.