Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
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By Bezo Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:48 pm
This might be a question for @MPC-Tutor as he has created quite a few of each, I'm sure.

I'm about to spend some time creating some multi-layered acoustic kits, looking for them to respond realistically as possible. Velocity switching layers is good for capturing timbre differences of various velocities. Cycle/random layers are good for capturing differences of hits at the same or similar velocities.

My question is, which can best account for the strength of the other?

I've not created any cycle kits, but I've tweaked envelopes & such of single layered kits to get different "timbres" at varying velocities. This of course could be applied to cycle kits to get the best of both worlds.

What could I do to randomize similar velocity hits with a velocity layer kit? I finger drum most parts, and never use full/half velocity, so some envelope tweaks would help a bit. But I'm wondering if there are any random variables I could assign that would add slight variations to 2 hits at potentially the same velocity.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks!
By CharlesRandolph Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:18 pm
I'm about to spend some time creating some multi-layered acoustic kits, looking for them to respond realistically as possible.


For realism, record each drum with 4 different dynamics. For example, if you're making a kick drums.

Record the 4 kick drums four times. VERY HIGH, HIGH, MEDIUM, SOFT. Then after you've clean them up.
Assign soft to 1-38, medium 39 to 87, High 88 to 119, and Very High to 120 to 127. These velocity layer numbers are just an example, so you'll have to play around with them. Find what sound natural when playing and then reference them with the original recording.
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By Bezo Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:00 am
Thanks, but I'm familiar with the process. I'm asking if there's anything I can do to add variety to similar velocity hits. A cycle/random layer kit provides "round robins". I'm wondering if there's an effect that could fake that?
By CharlesRandolph Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:34 am
Bezo wrote:Thanks, but I'm familiar with the process. I'm asking if there's anything I can do to add variety to similar velocity hits. A cycle/random layer kit provides "round robins". I'm wondering if there's an effect that could fake that?


Never tried an effect. I'm more into creating kits from live drums. Mic up a nice kit, get a good drummer with excellent control, record different variations, edit and map them. Then it's up to the finger drummer to create different dynamics. For me, that's where the real skill lays.

Now if the MPC allowed for 8+ layer of drums per pad, then we could get really close realistic drumming techniques. I've done it using two pad before, which allowed me to have 8 different velocity per sound.
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By MPC-Tutor Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:55 am
Until they offer a combined cycle and velocity switch option, I guess the possibilities are:

1) More velocity layers via simultaneous play
2) cycle pads combined with velocity sensitive settings such as V>tune, V>atk, V>filt. You could also try the noise LFO (very subtly)
3) 'hybrid' kits, where some pads use cycle, some use velocity switch depending on the nature of the sound and what suits it best.
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By Bezo Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:49 pm
Wow! Thanks for the responses folks!

CharlesRandolph wrote:
Bezo wrote:Thanks, but I'm familiar with the process. I'm asking if there's anything I can do to add variety to similar velocity hits. A cycle/random layer kit provides "round robins". I'm wondering if there's an effect that could fake that?


Never tried an effect. I'm more into creating kits from live drums. Mic up a nice kit, get a good drummer with excellent control, record different variations, edit and map them. Then it's up to the finger drummer to create different dynamics. For me, that's where the real skill lays.

Now if the MPC allowed for 8+ layer of drums per pad, then we could get really close realistic drumming techniques. I've done it using two pad before, which allowed me to have 8 different velocity per sound.
Yeah, more layers would solve my issue.

I'm squeezing an entire kit with multiple articulations for snares, hats & ride, and duplicate pads for kick & one snare, so pads for extra layers is a no go.
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By Bezo Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:58 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:Until they offer a combined cycle and velocity switch option, I guess the possibilities are:

1) More velocity layers via simultaneous play
2) cycle pads combined with velocity sensitive settings such as V>tune, V>atk, V>filt. You could also try the noise LFO (very subtly)
3) 'hybrid' kits, where some pads use cycle, some use velocity switch depending on the nature of the sound and what suits it best.
Combo cycle/velocity option is one of my top wants.

Simultaneous Play? I'll have to look that up.

Yeah, cycle kits seem to be able to fake velocity more than velocity kits faking variety with similar velocity hits. I guess I'm leaning this way, but was hoping there were effects that could help velocity kits.

Hmm, hybrid kits. Maybe cycle for higher frequency pieces like cymbals, side sticks & rack toms, and velocity for kicks, floor toms and some snares.

Thanks!
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By Bezo Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:03 pm
Lampdog wrote:I was thinking lfo modulation affecting filter and/or resonance if possible.
I wonder if I could tame this for velocity layer kits.

CharlesRandolph wrote:MPC Drum pad must get closer, to the what the Roland V Drums are doing. They have more sensor so when you hit a certain part Roland pad, you get a different sound. They really have the science down.
MPC-Tutor wrote:I believe each pad can be configured for 4 zones each with a unique note and pressure CC#. Or it can be set up with one corner = note, one corner = pressure CC, one corner X-axis CC and one corner Y-axis cc.
This would be really nice. I think there's a poor man's version of this as I can get chokes for cymbals, at least when controlling drum VIs, by hitting the edge of pads. Maybe they're not too far off.