DRUM TECHNIQUES 4 DA MPC

PEACE,
I am bringing up a topic that should be talked about because it is the very spine of your music. If you can't get this right then...

D. R. U. M. S.
(Direct Rhythms Under Mechanical Systems)
That is my coin and lm sticking to it.

There was a comment made about my drums, as stated:

_________________

So this can happen and have a knowledge base for good drums on your MPCs or other source. The MPC so much so here people use the MPC. I choose to use another source. The techniques can be used to make clean drums or as they say dem dirty old drums lol

I've heard a lot of music here and l can say like CharlesRandolph seems to use 12 bit drums, if lm wrong he can correct me. My drums are clean because l have a technique that l have build over the years on my OWN . This is from practicing and pondering on how to get my drums to where people what them. Im there. Its a blessing.
Eyalc is another person, his drums are clean but lm sure he uses another technique.
DJ Ambush has those drums that sound like straight from a record he chopped and went in on. That's a few. No wrong or right way. Its what you want to sound like. Having go to technique go to can to especially if you're in the stoo with a client.

I would like to take time to help those who want to know how to proceed. I wil show graphs, let you know what to get etc. Hope others with knowledge can share their knowledge. Beware people some people don't wanna give out their info on what they use and do.

Lets have a positive turn out.

Peace

Rah Da N.O.C!!!!

Danoc... I think you're hitting on a different perspective here, but I'll throw in some info.

I'm going to lead off with "if it sounds good, it is good". That doesn't mean that everybody else will like it, but it can be important to go with your gut. While chopping with a GUI sure is handy, it also can lead to some very 'same' chops. So if a chop that is early or late works for you, does not mean it is wrong.

This next one is harder, because a lot of music gets our ears warmed to "on the grid", but I would also say don't be afraid to turn timing correct off, play, and see what you get. There can be real magic to be found when you are not always on the grid, and seriously, human drummers are never 100% on the grid. An extreme of this is to track straight to audio, it is super frustrating at first, but it can really open up a world of possibilities in timing you had never known of. For this reason, I think it's important for everybody to have at least some experience with a looper of some sort. Similar to MPC 2/4/8 bar tracks, a looper can get you to lay out a pretty complete idea in short order. Better, if it can sync to midi you can use the two together and just go bananas.

If you want to sound authentic it is important to study what great drummers do, and how they do it. This requires listening to music, and don't be afraid to listen to the same song multiple times. Each listen can help you understand some nuances that you might not have heard before. Obviously it is easier to process a break, but that doesn't always mean it is the best part of the song to gravitate to, because the way the drums interact/groove/swing/etc with the rest of the music can help you learn new ideas and concepts.

Last point I'll add here is don't be afraid to go way outside the box. Sample sources don't need to be records or songs, why not beat box, make a recording session trying weird sounds with an empty water bottle, sample yourself beating the hell out of a garbage can. This is probably super obvious for a lot of you, but don't be afraid to pitch to extremes, you never know what kind of sounds you'll find, a short sound bite from tapping a glass with a spoon could sound like an epic drum hit detuned -24... you just never know.

I'm just leaving this here... because if this cannot help inspire you, I don't know what will. https://www.thefutzbutler.com/news/the-20-best-drum-sounds-of-all-time/

Danoc, this has potential to be one of the most useful threads on here. I’m in. Can’t post right now, but definitely will be. If helpful, I’ll post a song of mine, and talk about the drums...

I tend to use whatever drum works for the compositions. It's all about how someone process the drums and what kind of mix their looking for. Different styles require different techniques. Like in the last battle, that track is really made with the turntablist in mind.

I put different part, which could be used for juggling, scratching, drumming, etc. That the reason, the drums sound like they do and the reason it formatted the music that way. We DJs look for different sound when scratching and it's not always what rappers, singers, guitarist, and others listen for.

Thank you for the drop. My main goal here was not to imply SEQUENCING but how to use a technique to chop drums and make them clean or dirty, basically to your liking. I have been collecting drums since 93' I was taught how to mike up a drum set. I got the dopest TomTom collection, stereo and direct hits. I was taught not to look at a drummer but THE ENTIRE BAND. Looking from theur perspective outward to the crowd.

So what you gave is important after you get those drums exactly the way you want from any source. Thank you.

NearTao wrote:Danoc... I think you're hitting on a different perspective here, but I'll throw in some info.

I'm going to lead off with "if it sounds good, it is good". That doesn't mean that everybody else will like it, but it can be important to go with your gut. While chopping with a GUI sure is handy, it also can lead to some very 'same' chops. So if a chop that is early or late works for you, does not mean it is wrong.

This next one is harder, because a lot of music gets our ears warmed to "on the grid", but I would also say don't be afraid to turn timing correct off, play, and see what you get. There can be real magic to be found when you are not always on the grid, and seriously, human drummers are never 100% on the grid. An extreme of this is to track straight to audio, it is super frustrating at first, but it can really open up a world of possibilities in timing you had never known of. For this reason, I think it's important for everybody to have at least some experience with a looper of some sort. Similar to MPC 2/4/8 bar tracks, a looper can get you to lay out a pretty complete idea in short order. Better, if it can sync to midi you can use the two together and just go bananas.

If you want to sound authentic it is important to study what great drummers do, and how they do it. This requires listening to music, and don't be afraid to listen to the same song multiple times. Each listen can help you understand some nuances that you might not have heard before. Obviously it is easier to process a break, but that doesn't always mean it is the best part of the song to gravitate to, because the way the drums interact/groove/swing/etc with the rest of the music can help you learn new ideas and concepts.

Last point I'll add here is don't be afraid to go way outside the box. Sample sources don't need to be records or songs, why not beat box, make a recording session trying weird sounds with an empty water bottle, sample yourself beating the hell out of a garbage can. This is probably super obvious for a lot of you, but don't be afraid to pitch to extremes, you never know what kind of sounds you'll find, a short sound bite from tapping a glass with a spoon could sound like an epic drum hit detuned -24... you just never know.

I'm just leaving this here... because if this cannot help inspire you, I don't know what will. https://www.thefutzbutler.com/news/the-20-best-drum-sounds-of-all-time/

My drums usually come from (2) sources, either some sampled source based on real drums, or I synthesize them myself (or stack these methods). There are times I go off that plan, like if I use an actual drum machine. For "me", I just love the sound of acoustic drums, especially really open snares, and hits with a more natural click, but they don't usually work with the style of music I am making, so that's when I try and mix them with synthesized drums (except congas, congas stay CLEAN, its the Go-Go in me). Synthesizing my own drums, gives me the most flexibility to make it sound how I want without having to nose dive and spend tons of time (for me at least tons of time) trying to layer 'just the right drums'. Some of it is skill (lack thereof), some of it is database (lack thereof), some of it is not wanting to traverse thousands of samples to find the right one - and losing the creative process - just make loops with real drum sounds, then beef up and round out with a layered synthesized drums.

I decided a few weeks ago to just make like 4 drum packs that I would encapsulate all the drums I use, haven't done it, but that's next, I want to reduce time spent making drums as much as possible.
- Unreall

Eyalc wrote:Danoc, this has potential to be one of the most useful threads on here. I’m in. Can’t post right now, but definitely will be. If helpful, I’ll post a song of mine, and talk about the drums...

Yes sir do that, l actually am a fan of your music and how you process your drums. From the picking of your drums to sequencing to mixing your music is tight!

We're going to get into frequencies how to roll off etc. A lot of people just make the beat without knowing the how abiut drums.

Gotcha. See DJ Ambush is a DJ but his drums sounded so different from yours though you both were on the same highway, a boom Bap highway.

Would you use the same techniques of drum sounds for say a Pop track, RnB track or Dance Hall?

Thanks for the reply.

CharlesRandolph wrote:I tend to use whatever drum works for the compositions. It's all about how someone process the drums and what kind of mix their looking for. Different styles require different techniques. Like in the last battle, that track is really made with the turntablist in mind.

I put different part, which could be used for juggling, scratching, drumming, etc. That the reason, the drums sound like they do and the reason it formatted the music that way. We DJs look for different sound when scratching and it's not always what rappers, singers, guitarist, and others listen for.

Eyalc wrote:Danoc, this has potential to be one of the most useful threads on here. I’m in. Can’t post right now, but definitely will be. If helpful, I’ll post a song of mine, and talk about the drums...

Oh and give the credit to LEV for asking the question.

Danoc wrote:Gotcha. See DJ Ambush is a DJ but his drums sounded so different from yours though you both were on the same highway, a boom Bap highway.

It all depends on what we're trying to make, Turntablist and DJ are common but Turntablist tend to focus on manipulating sounds and using the turntable as instruments to create music. We're sound designers and of the DJ world.

Danoc wrote:Would you use the same techniques of drum sounds for say a Pop track, RnB track or Dance Hall?

Can't do it with a pop track, because of how much they smash the music. Pop song have pretty thin and open mix. As for R&B it just depends on the era. 60 R&B had more rock style drum, 70 R&B had a heavier and warm drums, 80's and 90's had thinner drums. As for Dance Hall, the drums are heavy and muddy, have to be able to move those speakers and work with the bassline.

Here's a few things I am aware of, but *rarely* mess with. If somebody wanted to educate me I'd greatly appreciate it.

How do you go about stacking multiple drum samples, and for what effect? I can usually balance out two, but I tend to make a muddy mess on the third/fourth drum and just go back to one or two hits.

Can you explain methods you use to tune drum hits? Do you tune drums to the kit or to the entire song?

When do you choose to sample into devices versus whatever you are using for your main kit?

What causes you to consider clearing a sample, there are millions of drum hits that pretty much sound the same, and with a bit of FX could become unrecognizable?

How do you sort your drum hits collection to keep sane?

Do you find yourself going back to a favorites collection of drum hits, every song is different and unique, or somewhere in between?

Kid is yelling at me... I'll leave this for now... and add more questions later.

Thank you.

See that's another technique LAYERING drums. We're going to get unto that. Haven't you heard "MY DRUMS ARE WEAK WHAT I DO TO MAKE THEM POP?"

EQing and layering is one the most needed teaching a producer should know. I get paid for that:
1. A lot of producers or people that need sounds are to busy or lazy so they pay me. I never thought l would do sound design. Sh** is crazy.
2. They don't know how so they pay me.

Kniwing how to layer, EQ and the know how to use effects is very important. As a producer you have wear many hats these days abd if you execute rught you can see sime sweet green lettuce in your pocket

I don't know how l came to this but lm able to take a garbage drum by breaking it down then rebuilding it. So don't ask where l got it from cause l don't know

I just know from doing this for so long you invent things. This is the nature of man l have a lot of studying under my belt. But have room to keep learning.

Short story l got this RnB chick she gave me a sample of these drums she like. Asked me if l could get them and use them in her new track we are about to do. I told her l would try. Im in the big studio but l used my headphones cause l want the direct sound. Told her and her manager get out lol l will finush in 45 minutes. I need my space and don't want interference plus they don't need to see the way l do it. Lmao
I was dine in 20 minutes, and l just sat there going back and forth. They came back and l played them she was like ---> " OH SH** THOSE DRUMS ARE FU***ING LIT" she is happier than a cursing sailor or should l say she cuss like a sailor lol
She didn't hear my drums l have but we will rock hers in the song. Sounding dope so far.


If anything is important is these things. We gotta talk about this cause its important.

Unreallystic wrote:My drums usually come from (2) sources, either some sampled source based on real drums, or I synthesize them myself (or stack these methods). There are times I go off that plan, like if I use an actual drum machine. For "me", I just love the sound of acoustic drums, especially really open snares, and hits with a more natural click, but they don't usually work with the style of music I am making, so that's when I try and mix them with synthesized drums (except congas, congas stay CLEAN, its the Go-Go in me). Synthesizing my own drums, gives me the most flexibility to make it sound how I want without having to nose dive and spend tons of time (for me at least tons of time) trying to layer 'just the right drums'. Some of it is skill (lack thereof), some of it is database (lack thereof), some of it is not wanting to traverse thousands of samples to find the right one - and losing the creative process - just make loops with real drum sounds, then beef up and round out with a layered synthesized drums.

I decided a few weeks ago to just make like 4 drum packs that I would encapsulate all the drums I use, haven't done it, but that's next, I want to reduce time spent making drums as much as possible.
- Unreall

NearTao wrote:Can you explain methods you use to tune drum hits? Do you tune drums to the kit or to the entire song?

It depends what you're building the song around. If the song is built around the guitar melody, then you tune the drums to that. The key is the arrangement and making sure the notes work with each other. This is the reason, I don't need side chaining, because I arrange my music so the kick and bass don't clash.

Now if I did use side chaining its only used as a sound effect, not a band-aid to fix my lack of arranging skills or ability to tune the instruments. Ear training is one of the most important to develope.

Thank you for stopping by. GOOD LAWD l didn't think this wood take off so soon. Like maybe tomorrow or summin lol

Maybe Eyalc got something on the potential part.

1. When stacking you should never be over in the red causing distortion. Mono or stereo l prefer not to stack more than 3 kicks. They have to be different in tonal nature. By the time you stack the 3rd your kick shoukd sound different. EQing is a HUGE difference maker in this. And your technique should be spot on. Their frequencies shouldn't clash. Can't just slap kicks on top and say its dope. If you have one kick that is more powerful than thee others you have to blend together to get a new kick. The results will be wonderful. EQing takes time to get also. Ear fatigue is a thing you have to watch. If you stay an hour layering when you get up and come back your layering will sound terrible. Get up off it if you've been doing it for 20 minutes. Give your ears a 15 minute break.

2. Drum tuning is the process of adjusting the frequency or pitch of a drum. Although most drums are unpitched instruments, they still require tuning in order to remove unwanted overtones and produce the sound that the drummer prefers. Some drums such as timpani and rototoms are tuned to a definite pitch.

If you're asking if l have a two part progression and the root note A#(sharp) for the first progression and the 2nd root note progression is Cb (flat) of both chords and do l tune a kick to it, nah. But these days we can lay a kick chronically across a key board and put it in key with the chords. But l don't do that nor a drummer. It doesn't guarantee a hit. I just find a kick snare that will complement the track. I can hear it in my head. Being l have a ton of drums l can get exactly what lm looking for.

3. I barely have to go find a sample kick or snare unless l hear a sound l go get it. But l mostly stack and get a new sound.

4. Morphing that kick or snare into something else. But not to many people go after kicks and snares as infringement. Layering so it won't be recognizable. We're getting into copyright here.

5. I make folders for kicks, snares, percussion etc. Others do it different. I actually love going digital kick or drum diggin.

6. Somewhere in between. I have 10 kicks that are for any situation.

NearTao wrote:Here's a few things I am aware of, but *rarely* mess with. If somebody wanted to educate me I'd greatly appreciate it.

How do you go about stacking multiple drum samples, and for what effect? I can usually balance out two, but I tend to make a muddy mess on the third/fourth drum and just go back to one or two hits.

Can you explain methods you use to tune drum hits? Do you tune drums to the kit or to the entire song?

When do you choose to sample into devices versus whatever you are using for your main kit?

What causes you to consider clearing a sample, there are millions of drum hits that pretty much sound the same, and with a bit of FX could become unrecognizable?

How do you sort your drum hits collection to keep sane?

Do you find yourself going back to a favorites collection of drum hits, every song is different and unique, or somewhere in between?

Kid is yelling at me... I'll leave this for now... and add more questions later.

Whatever it takes to make it sound how want it to sound. And that really depends on the vibe of the beat I am going for. Tone, presence, groove in relation to mood and so on.

I have a shitload of breaks and one shots on my harddisk. I always start with a break, eq and compres it by resampling inside the MPC2500 to make them knock hard. Chop and sequence, layer and resample if needed. I like to keep things a little bit messy. I always make sure my drumsamples are mono to give them more presence.

I prefer to get one shots out of a drumbreak and sequence that. Especially if I have laid down a loop with the sample already. Then I just follow the groove. Sometimes when I have some chords chopped up and have problems finding a rhythm I just use break chops and built my beat on the groove of that break.

When sequencing drums I usually start with the snare quantised to lock things in more easily. Hihats and kicks without quantise and different velocities (16 levels). I redo the snares later sometimes without TC. Once I have the main sample and drum pattern looping I adjust the params of the drumsamples. Filter, pitch, amp envelope and layer where needed. Sometimes I swap out samples if they don't fit for whatever reason. Sometimes I resample with more compression/ LP filter/ EQ. Sometimes it's a combination of the described above.

Once tracked out I only want to do some correctional EQing in Logic. Mostly cutting away frequencies I don't want, rarely boosting or compressing during postproduction. I really want my drums to be done for 90-95% when they leave the MPC.