difference in bars for.....

i know some of you guys have the skill of rap so you know how you want your song to sound, but some of us are not so fortunate to do that or have an emcee, so we have to stick to makin instrumental beat song's.

now my question is how do you structure your bars for a song with an emcee? and how do you structure your song if your making an instrumental song?.

foe example heres how i do my song structure, i start with an intro usually

2-4-8 bars intro

12-16 bars verse

4-8 bars break

12-16 bars verse

8 bars break

12- 16 verse

and then the endtro is up to how the rest of the song sounds, i usually like to end with the way the song started or with the 2nd sequence,

i got this technique from a friend that raps, but some times when i'm making my songs it sounds to long, what is a typical lenght for a song?, and is there a difference in how you make a song for a emcee?, and one for just listening too.(instrumental style) as far as how many bars one has?.

i'd really appreciate any reply's and sugguestions on this ,
thanks fam....

why would you make a whole song unless a rapper is writing to it and then u would ask him how hw wants it. when i am shopping i just do a 2 bar intro maybe hook next if it is really bangin the verse or verse then hook. 45 secs max. nobody is going to listen past that point if u dont have them by then

thats the point to instrumental music, there is no emcee


as i ask'd

now my question is how do you structure your bars for a song with an emcee? and how do you structure your song if your making an instrumental song?.

I try to keep my verses, lyrically speaking, under 16 bars. The other 2 emcees in my group, are both different, one always at 16 bars, the other singing hooks and his raps are usually more than 16 bars but no more than 20.

When i initially make a beat to present the group, i don't really have a set length. I make the beat in a way that sounds interesting the whole way through as an instrumental. If not they may get tired of repetition and lose interest. But, they know that any sequence can be looped longer when they write to it.

When we first got together 2 years ago my beats were a lot more primitive. So the song structure was predictable verse-chorus-verse, etc. Now we don't write or think like that anymore. My latest beat has like 3 beats in one. Tempo changes. Breakdowns that are faster than the rest of the beat.

My main goal is to not have my wife lose interest in a beat because of repetition when i say "Hey baby, what do you think of this?". She is my best critique, not worried about my ego or hurting my feelings, and lays it on the line.

Get some emcee(s) or your wife(your'e married right, ede?) for critique.

Sorry to ramble. I guess just make it interesting if it's instrumental or not.

yeah i hear you may wife listens to my music but you know creating it is a repeative process so she get's use to hearing what i 'm making, but yeah when it's complete i let her hear it and she tells me what she thinks , but she's not a hiphop head so she dont really know what she's listening for ,

as far as building the song to the emcee i usually tell the emcee that's interested in my beat i can sequence it out to there liking,
but i think i'm going to have to keep my beat short and sweet,
what is a typical lenght of time for a sample track with let say intro, 1 verse and a break right? aorund a minute and a half two mins.?

can this process be used for an instrumental. beat too?

Hey where Drumat!c i think he is an emcee that produces. He usually hangs out in the Mpc60 Forum cos he got it like that. Check him I bet he got the lead on that fromat.

I don't rap myself, but I'm always working with a variety of rappers. What I've learned is that 90% of the time, they write 16 bar verses. That seems to be universal. You can always switch things up to their liking, but it seems like I do a lot less switching up when I present a beat with 16 bar verses. Chorus/hook is usually 8 bars. I like to do intro's (usually 4-8 bars) and bridges (usually 8 bars) to keep my beats changing up, but the 16 bar verse/8 bar hook/chorus seems to be the standard.

My wife isn't a hip hop head either. She knows what she likes and doesn't. But, lyrics aside, she is a great resource because she's not opinionated. If it feels good then it is good. I also don't present her with some of my harder beats because i know the answer already. Thats where the other cats come in.

thats where i lost her at cause i try to stick to head knoding beats or rugged rugged sounding stuff, but some of it she likes,
it tha house tracks where she's my biggest critic and havent yet got that down quiet yet.
i work more on hiphop.

Depends what you want to bring...today its 2-4 intro and 3 16s with 2-3 choruses.........but also, some do 8 bars.........I think not having a emcee around you have to do what you feel, picture a rapper you'd like to hear on a beat you make...make it sorta intended for them.....don'tr do what everyone else is doing but do you.....

do you

depending on the sample, you can use a 4-8 bar intro.

a typical song might be:

4 to 8 bar intro
three 16 bar verses
three 8 bar hooks
maybe a 4-8 bar bridge between the second hook going into the 3rd verse.
then any kind of outro to the beat...maybe drop the drums out for a sec then bring them back so they rapper can either talk or just to bang the beat for a few seconds before the song goes out.

so you guys say three 16 bars verses 8 bar hook ,so thats 24 bars befor the bridge or break right? i'm i gettin this right?

the first 16 bars is just the same sound going on for 16bars then the main sample hook for 8 bars,
it just sounds like it would be to long of nothing going on ,but then i guessthats where th emcee would coming handy right?

just trying to get this idea in my head,cause it seems for instrumental beats theres more going on in the music ,then when you hear a beat with an emcee the emcee add's that lttle extra to the beat and if you listen to it with out the vocals it sounds like a straight loop. you know?

Doesn't always have to be the same thing. The music has to come to life and move. You can change it around......everyones problem is doing what is out there, but you can't fault them because I feel that we all would like success with something we enjoy doing fame or not. No one is willin to take chances.......if anything network on the internet similair to what that cat from Little Brother (Big Pooh I think) and Nicolay did.....just chat up on the net and find out what they want........see if you can do business or an album together.

I wish for the days that emcees could work with 1 or 2 producers and have a story to tell, I think many producers like guest appearences ruins the feel and artist cred.

yea thats just the typical song. you always should change it up and do different things! but like I said, a typical song might go something like that