2k5 XL Navigation

kazakore wrote: [No he hasn't! He has made the buttons operate in one mode in one screen and the other mode in the other screen where they should be able to operate as either in both, as designed. Anything else is just crippling the machine. You say the operation is based mainly around the Jog Wheel, and this will keep that (and prefferably standardise between how it works with both Drum and MIDI tracks) but people wanting to add quick parts with swing by programming should be able to use the <Step> button in BOTH modes, not being forced to go into Main to do it as the button only works as <Event> in the Grid Edit Mode because JJ couldn't be bothered to program its dual operation.

It seems JJ just thought people had enough of a musical understanding to place notes where they need to be when working in GRID instead of depending on the MPC to do it.
People must still depend on the MPC to place the notes in GRID just as they do in realtime.

THE ADVERSARY wrote:DRUM and MIDI are designed to be different based on what they address, if they were they same it would take things back to where they were originally which is also a limiting factor.

That is utter BS! So you have a synth and you move by 4 ticks are you are using MID. Now you have exactly the same sound but it's a sample but you are moving by 24 ticks. That is just moronic! You are working with exactly the same material just in a different format! Same between single hit drum samples or an external drum machine. Etc etc etc ad infinitum.

THE ADVERSARY wrote:

kazakore wrote: [No he hasn't! He has made the buttons operate in one mode in one screen and the other mode in the other screen where they should be able to operate as either in both, as designed. Anything else is just crippling the machine. You say the operation is based mainly around the Jog Wheel, and this will keep that (and prefferably standardise between how it works with both Drum and MIDI tracks) but people wanting to add quick parts with swing by programming should be able to use the <Step> button in BOTH modes, not being forced to go into Main to do it as the button only works as <Event> in the Grid Edit Mode because JJ couldn't be bothered to program its dual operation.

It seems JJ just thought people had enough of a musical understanding to place notes where they need to be when working in GRID instead of depending on the MPC to do it.
People must still depend on the MPC to place the notes in GRID just as they do in realtime.

It's not so much a matter as having it place notes where you want as having it work the same in both screen and taking advantage of the functions that the machine has provided for use. Sure the possibility to add notes/beats and stick to the groove without noting exact placements of others would be an advantage and only saying it should be implemented in one screen as it IS ALREADY implemented in the other.

You have to take in consideration that the JJ OS has never had what would be considered any real cohension or overall path.
He tends to makes things fit, it's kinda the gift and the curse.
It allows you to get features and methods that Akai would have never delivered on but at the same time will always have a cost.

If you look back at the path you can see more than once giving the people what they asked for had bigger cost than expected.

I think more than anything for this kind of thing it's wanting to keep the 1k and 2k5 codes as similar as possible. I was hoping more people would think it would be nice to have both step and event in both windows, and have jog wheel work the same for both sample and midi tracks, but it seems not to be the case. I will have to just get used to the slightly clunky way of working...

I'm still very much a beginner in this thing and have a lot to learn. This is one thing so far that has been slightly niggling to me but not something I don't think I can get used to. Just seemed weird that although there is a dedicated key combo, marked on the machine and everything, he opted to use the 1k method of changing the buttons usage per mode and not give both operations in both modes, like the machine has been designed to do.

kazakore wrote:
That is utter BS! So you have a synth and you move by 4 ticks are you are using MID. Now you have exactly the same sound but it's a sample but you are moving by 24 ticks. That is just moronic! You are working with exactly the same material just in a different format! Same between single hit drum samples or an external drum machine. Etc etc etc ad infinitum.

You are joking I hope, if not you have little or no understanding of the two.
MIDI tracks aren't for controlling an external drum machine they are designed to allow better use and editing of MIDI devices.
Could be a synth, effect unit or a drum sampler with more advance features that the MPC.

And be careful about the insults, that the only thing that's moronic.

Just seems that you believe the Main screen to be a functional point to edit while I totally disagree and feel it took valuable view space from that screen.
The screen is now so clutter that the values for Time Signature run under the BARS when you use certain values.
If anything give us one full featured GRID edit screen that the Window button opens from the Main screen and reduce the clutter on the Main screen.

Don't forget that 1k is JJ's machine, he started doing the 2500 because Akai built it from the 1k's hardware and OS.
If all else fails just load the Akai OS back on there for a week.
When you come back to the JJ OS the little chinks in the armor won't seem to matter as much.
There are always little things in the OS that only affect a few so they tend to not get addressed.
For me it the MTC info not being retained when you save.
I have to alway note the time position where a sequenceor song locks to tape.
Never see any comments about it and since JJ is aware of it means it's low priority, so I just move on.

kazakore wrote:I think more than anything for this kind of thing it's wanting to keep the 1k and 2k5 codes as similar as possible. I was hoping more people would think it would be nice to have both step and event in both windows, and have jog wheel work the same for both sample and midi tracks, but it seems not to be the case. I will have to just get used to the slightly clunky way of working...

I'm still very much a beginner in this thing and have a lot to learn. This is one thing so far that has been slightly niggling to me but not something I don't think I can get used to. Just seemed weird that although there is a dedicated key combo, marked on the machine and everything, he opted to use the 1k method of changing the buttons usage per mode and not give both operations in both modes, like the machine has been designed to do.

I only started using it in version 1.12 so as I said am new to the machine.

THE ADVERSARY wrote:

kazakore wrote:
That is utter BS! So you have a synth and you move by 4 ticks are you are using MID. Now you have exactly the same sound but it's a sample but you are moving by 24 ticks. That is just moronic! You are working with exactly the same material just in a different format! Same between single hit drum samples or an external drum machine. Etc etc etc ad infinitum.

You are joking I hope, if not you have little or no understanding of the two.
MIDI tracks aren't for controlling an external drum machine they are designed to allow better use and editing of MIDI devices.
Could be a synth, effect unit or a drum sampler with more advance features that the MPC.

Isn't that basically exactly what I said? But in the main screen editor on Grid Edit you are only ever entering Note On events, whether it's a MIDI track or a Drum track. There is no reason why internal samples should work on a different standard resolution (cursor movement) to external sound modules. If the difference was between the main Grid Edit screen and the Control screen (within Grid Edit) that would make some sense, as obviously you want more control than you do with just entering notes. Please tell me what I'm missing with that comment as you seem to think something isn't right with that thinking.

Just seems that you believe the Main screen to be a functional point to edit while I totally disagree and feel it took valuable view space from that screen.
The screen is now so clutter that the values for Time Signature run under the BARS when you use certain values.
If anything give us one full featured GRID edit screen that the Window button opens from the Main screen and reduce the clutter on the Main screen.

You're may be right, as I've said I'm very new to the MPC and still learning a lot! Although I have seen a lot of people champion the addition of a basic grid editor in Main view though and it does seem to work from usage so far. but as i keep on saying it's not about making the Main view more usable, it's about making both functions work for the <Step>/<Event> button. If there was no editor in the Main view I would still want to be able to use both the functions the buttons should be able to perform in the Grid Editor.

THE ADVERSARY wrote:Don't forget that 1k is JJ's machine, he started doing the 2500 because Akai built it from the 1k's hardware and OS.

Does JJ ONLY have a 1k? Maybe everybody in this forum could get a fund together to buy him a 2k5. I'd chuck $5 in it if it would help him develop for the 2k5

kazakore wrote:

THE ADVERSARY wrote:Don't forget that 1k is JJ's machine, he started doing the 2500 because Akai built it from the 1k's hardware and OS.

Does JJ ONLY have a 1k? Maybe everybody in this forum could get a fund together to buy him a 2k5. I'd chuck $5 in it if it would help him develop for the 2k5

JJ was part of the program team that designed the original 1k OS.
Originally he only did a 1k OS but eventually started doing the 2500 as well since it is a redressed 1k with a cheaper metal case.
Bigger but cheaper, the metal on the 2500 will flex more than the 1k.

For awhile it looked like there wasn't going to be a JJ for the 2500.

The Main screen Grid is good for quick repair of a note or two and minor tweaking, but not for any real micro editing.
So basically if you tap in something you can use the Main screen to change something instead of replaying it.


This was why I said it would be best if he just made a full function GRID Mode with more Zoom or a way to link the visible grid to the TC resolution that you quickly accessed from the Main screen.