Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.

By elmacaco Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:32 am
MattMatiks PG wrote:
ddot_SFV wrote:(I did see a demo chucked in the trash for using all Triton stock presets however) :oops:


Damn... That's just hatin cause half the mainstream makes hits off of Triton presets... :lol:


Exactly why they threw it out, it gets played.

By ddot_SFV Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:19 am
tdot wrote:DDot


i plan on going to a recording institute(bypassing the college route) and hope to get a job engineering or working a sound studio for movies or music, no real preference.


I'm not worrying about the quality of the school because I know it is top notch but what are the chances of me finding a steady job in a studio? Pay I would be expecting?

any help would be cool


That's a tough question to answer. It really depends on your talent and your drive. It seems like all of the really great engineers and mixers have a passion for just that. Engineering. They aint trying to shop beats or be a producer or director and what not. Engineering is an art form. Any clown can learn to be a Pro Tools operator. Some cats just have that magic touch.

So what if it's not the top-notch school. Most students come out of engineering school not knowing sh*t anyway. Be a sponge and learn every aspect of this technology. Also teach yourself. I never went to school. I learned by reading everything audio I could get my hands on. I went to sleep and woke up with my Pro Tools manual. Not at all suggesting you skip the schooling. I sort of wish I had gone. I've got major gaps in my knowledge. Probably why I'm a good engineer and NOT a great one.

As far as pay goes, it really depends on what market you're in. I live in LA so I'll speak on that. Runners and interns usually make anywhere from min. wage to $10.00/hr. The average engineer makes between $10-20/hr. Major label stuff $20-50/hr. (I know a cat that makes $90 but this is rare) A top mix engineer can command $1500-$2000/day. As you can see, the pay scale is all over the place. These are just my estimates based on my experiences on the music side. Film may be different. I heard it was more lucrative. Your mileage may vary.

This is a hard business to break into. That's the bottom line. Pursue this only if you can't see yourself happy in life doing anything else. Otherwise keep it as a hobby. Really think about it.






:?:
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By Cheech Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:24 pm
ddot_SFV wrote:
This is a hard business to break into. That's the bottom line. Pursue this only if you can't see yourself happy in life doing anything else. Otherwise keep it as a hobby. Really think about it.






:?:




Wis
dom
!!
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By cybernaga595 Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:42 pm
Cheech wrote:
ddot_SFV wrote:
This is a hard business to break into. That's the bottom line. Pursue this only if you can't see yourself happy in life doing anything else. Otherwise keep it as a hobby. Really think about it.


:?:



Wis
dom
!!

Co sign
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By trupro Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:26 pm
I graduated from a respected music conservatory, and by the time I was out, already had 4 realeases and countless features and licenced verses under my belt, as an artist. My teachers were world renouned composers, masters of pop music, and some very connected and respectable people.
I had assurances of references, places to intern, and multiple friends working at Sony, getting signed, and many other contacts.
In my final year I had interned for about six months for a well known studio. It was a privately owned company, but thier repoir with many artists coupled with thier personal touch got them tons of high paying clients.
During the time I interned, I was behind the boards once. Once in six months. And I will tell you, that it's amazing that I was even in the room, much less compressing the artists vocals to tape. This dude gave me a shot cus I was young, hungry, and I knew my shlt. Also, it was a no-name artist, and there was room for error. Then reality set in: I am not these guys favorite, because I am not here as often as everyone else, and I don't know if I wanna be. Do I really wanna engineer for a living? Does setting up mics for guitar palyers excite me? Will I ever produce for them? The answers I came up with for all of those were "Most likely, NO."
But everyone is different. Alot of engineers become producers, because the roles are sometimes so overlapped that you couldn't tell one from the other. Engineering and producing, repectively or put together, can be jobs that pay fairly, maybe even lucrativly for the top level. but it's like anything: to succeed you have to be very talented, very confident and have sincere and long-lasting relationships for anyone to even give a f%$#. Then, when they need something, they'll higher you.
Also, the digital revolution has convinced alot of people that they can attempt the same audio fidellity with a $3000 rig at home that they could get in a multimillion dollar facility. For a fact, they are incorrect, but the jury is out, and people are broke. Hence, they go to cheaper places. This is hitting the studio owner very hard right now, especially with no artist development going on from inside the major label machine. And in that respect, many studio managers are not looking for new employees.
That being said, when you go to a major studio, you start at the bottom, unless you are the owners blood relative or something like that. It's like any other feild in america: highly competetive, and highly saturated. Take into consideration that the majority of people who want to be an engineer for a living must usually work at least 6 months for free, if not longer. There are so many cats scrambling to do this, that it can get very politcal and cut throat in a large studio, but that's a hazard at any job I suppose.
With producing, it's the same thing. If you really want to make dough being an engineer, you should be ALL ABOUT BEING AN ENGINEER. NEVER HUSTLE YOUR TRACKS TO AN ARTIST IN FRONT OF A PRODUCER OR YOUR BOSS. If their producer or a&r express interest in finding beats, then you proceed. Use discression tho, because you need to submit these things thru your lawyer or manager most times with legitamate ish. Also, be the engineer for real. If I book a session as a producer, and you are an engineer in there trying to tell me what to do with the keyboard part, I just may let my ego get the better of me even if you are right. However, it is good to be inventive, and offer suggestions with everything technical, and present your ideas at appropriate times, and in a way that makes the producer or whoever look really good if it works. The lines have been blured. The studios don't have money to have a separate on-hand guitar tech, midi tech, protools operator, editor, tape tech, computer geek, etc. etc. So you gotta be good at all of it to even be considered. Even though the industry has changed, engineering can be a stepping stone to producing for money. The better you are at music theory, running the boards, and maintianing relationships, the better off you will be with both of those positions.
Alot of major artists have thier own engineers that they will usually use in the studio. Then, the job of the head engineer in a facility would be just to assist their guy. Try to link with up and commers who you believe are worthy of being a career artist, and you feel have as much drive and loyalty as you have. Wheter thier your friend's friend or your homie who just got his first deal, it wouldn't hurt letting them know you'd be excited to to a coulpe of mixes at a reasonable cost. If you do a great job for very little money, they will be forthcoming when their budget comes in. If you didn't believe in them , then you should charge an hourly rate. there's nothing wrong with keeping things all business either, cus no one will pay you if you do everything for free.
I'm sure many will agree, but if you are going up against me for choice of producer, I'm gonna want you to lose, so that I can get paid. No hate; it's all business. And that being said, contrary to popular belief, cut throat ish is NOT repspected. At the end of the day, the music really will speak for itself. So, with so many producers in the game, I'm sure you know why this is such a tough business. To safeguard against being cut out of the loop, just help as many people as you possible can, while protecting your stake with copywrites and limited distribution of master mixes and 'sessions'.
It's all about your sound, and how you carry yourself. Do not act like you reinvented the wheel when you are behind the board with experienced people around, because mixing IS an exact science. There are exact frequencies that do certian things to the ear, and it's been figured out already. The same with micing instruments and vocals. Learn those techniques, study the cats you repect, and apply the science. Then you add your little distortion and your jadakiss phasing vocal sound or whatever you like. Start from the foundation, and build on top. And, since you went to school, you should have a big leg up on those techniques. I know I have typed alot here, but I been where you are at, and alot of people have not asked the very simple and important question you posed in this forum. Also, I drank a sh%tload of coffee just now.

There are a few experienced cats in these forums who actually make all of their bread off of engineering in a major facility, and I hope they chime in with some tips for you.
Good luck in whatever you decide to take on.

By tdot Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:19 pm
man this post was exactly what i was looking for


thanks guys

By ddot_SFV Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:27 pm
trupro, great post. Well said.

By Toecutter Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:36 am
I agree with 98% of what you said. But I feel that it's not just competition, there IS hate in the industry. Almost everyone and their cousin has their own producer that they are trying to bring into the game in their crew/fam/company and they'd rather have them produce a mediocre track for free or for cheap than to pay real bread to a producer outside the click with a better beat. I experienced this first hand.
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By MattMatiks PG Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:59 am
elmacaco wrote:
MattMatiks PG wrote:
ddot_SFV wrote:(I did see a demo chucked in the trash for using all Triton stock presets however) :oops:


Damn... That's just hatin cause half the mainstream makes hits off of Triton presets... :lol:


Exactly why they threw it out, it gets played.


I was being sarcastic... Sorry if that wasn't obvious...

That's exactly why i hate the Triton everyone and their mother's cat has a f*ckin Triton... I was just sayin that it's bullsh*t that a demo got dropped for the same reason that people like Puffy makes millions... Hypocritical...

By elmacaco Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:03 am
Damn we agree again!!
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By MattMatiks PG Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:25 am
elmacaco wrote:Damn we agree again!!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Again

By ddot_SFV Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:12 pm
elmacaco, yor avatar. is that a prototype of the original LINN drum?

By elmacaco Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:00 pm
Linn Midi Studio, never produced, they made it right before Linn Joined Akai to make the 60. You can see most of the 60 elements on it, but it was essentially a Linn 9000 with Noew Case and OS. The only Rack Mount drum Sampler at the time.
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By trupro Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:03 pm
Word, cutter. I think that it's all about relationships. Everybody does have a homeboy that's a "producer" (accent on the 'quotes'), and that's become more and more evident as the game gets more oversaturated with cats doing the same thing. I think it was this Def Poetry cat who said something like: if we all on stage, then who's in the crowd to watch? I think, putting myself in peoples shoes who may have turned me down for track placement, due to their friend filling the slot instead, I gotta say I can't blame em, although that's how alot of dooky music gets put out. Product in general; movies; politics, etc. So the only way the game keeps any integrity, is people not settling for less. And as terrible as hiphop has been lately, it's been getting ALOT better over the past coupla years. That's my word, people are getting inspired again. Also, the fakers finally got it like 2 years ago that those plinky-plink preset joints won't cut it, even WITH Duro on the boards tryina save yo a$$!! Sometimes I kick back with an el behind the keyboard and think, "Damn...there's at least 100 people just in the immediate area doin this EXACT SAME THING right now. I'd better make this one unique."
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By MattMatiks PG Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:24 pm
trupro wrote:Sometimes I kick back with an el behind the keyboard and think, "Damn...there's at least 100 people just in the immediate area doin this EXACT SAME THING right now. I'd better make this one unique."


Truer words have never been spoken... A lot of people think that becasue there's a lot of competition right now that they should just quit... I see it as the opposite... I look at it like, "Well I better do my own unique thing cause anybody can lay out a nice 4 bar pattern with some chopped breaks now"...

Always look for evolution in Music