Kanye article / Sampling code of ethics.

Machine,that's what I'm saying.Fellas..don't get me wrong,I DO dig for vinyl.I'm in Boston and have about 10 dig spots,and i go to NY every now and then just for the weekend or something so ya best believe i got some dig spots there too.I own about 1000 records(roughly) all early 80's to early 60's ,so diggin' aint an issue.I'm just sayin' that if i'm actually like at a party and he throws on something recent like ,i dunno says Tupac,and i feel a snare he got why not use it.ya know...Pac sampled from somebody..somebody will sample Pac..and somebody will sample the person who sampled Pac.It's a big cycle,like the software Recycle.This IS a sampling sport isn't it?Besides I'm talking about a DRUM HIT..not a chorus or the whole lyric to a verse.All that ish is copyrightable anyway,I don't believe a drum hit can be copywritten.(I might be wrong though,only 95% sure)

Okay,what about when a producer samples a whole,unaltered bassline,or a whole unaltered guitar riff and uses it as is no tweaking at all.Many,many,many songs are COMPLETELY based on another producers song.Puffy-90 % of his shit... Dip Set- Boyz n the hood...Mary J. Blige-hot sex on a platter,Missy Elliot and 702 used that beat from whoever on Steelo that chill Rob G used,..and those are melodic,and obvious!


"You can take a picture of an old statue, and if you know how to use that camera well and you have a good eye, then the end result can be "art".
But once you've got your picture up in some gallery, some a$$hole with a camera takes a photo of that picture and sells it to the next gallery. Would you call that art?

Neither would I..

1.Cheech i hope you're not implying I'm an ****,cause this debate ain't even on that level.Just some folks tryin' to prove points maturely.If you're not then I apologize in advance for misunderstanding.

2.no it's not art if I'm JUST taking a picture of a picture and reselling it.But I'm NOT just making a song with JUST the sampled snare i have.I'm adding spice to it with my basslines,arrangement,strings,horns,scratches whatever.I think it would be art if you took a pic of a pic and put it in your own collage and added your own spice to it or whatever.

Imagine someone painted the painting of The Last Supper(do you know which one I'm talking about?) and sold it somewere else...that's crazy.Now imagine if someone did that but instead of using the original background they painted the ghetto in its place...or a jailcell or something and instead of the people sitting at a dinner table they're all sitting at a bar with Heinekens in there hands.I would say that was art because even though they used the original people they put a hellified spin on ish.They took the time to make it something else although it was based on something that was done originally by some else.Does anybody disagree?


Anyway.........I love forums like this!Makes ya use ya brain cells.It's kinda like the pro-abortion/anti-abortion debate.Iight..get back at me fellas with ya views .


......................................one.................

Taking drums from the top 40 rap charts is lazy and geigh

You know what I can't argue about that.....but I will say it's not unethical and I've been temped that tembo track with Celo I'll be around has some tight asz conga, and horn hits

I stand by what I said, the same sample, not sampling the same song.

Could you be more clear on this are you saying that if I have a record that has a voice sample I want to use and some body already used it then it would be wack for me to use

depends how you use it. The point is, using the same sample is what I have an issue with, sampling the same song which arguably hasa a million samples in it is fair game.

If I hear a track that uses a vocal sample made popular by somebody else, the credit is split cuz you riding on their game. If it was a long asss time ago and the vocal is kinda forgotten, well that can work, but it it was just on the radio? that's just weak.

the sounds you choose shape the music and the culture, if you regurgitate sounds then it doesn't broaden the horizon but keeps it where it is. which means stagnation.

I just don't get why people would so willingly sample from recent music, there is so much material out there to sample, and it's not like the sounds coming off the radio are that hot anyhow, they just already got picked up, so it looks like the benjamin chasers just want to short cut at the expense of their own creativity and resourcefulness.

Down with Kanye.

elmacaco,
this is off topic,but are you spanish.I been meaning to ask that for months.don't ask me why..i'm strange i guess

Cheech wrote:

elmacaco wrote:The thing is, how are you gonna be equal to a Dre or a Primo, or Pete Rock when you need their **** to sample from? How can you even be considered in the same league if all you do is take their drums off their latest release and do your stuff from that? The large part of the creativity of hip hop is getting and molding the sound sources. Hip hop beats aren't too different from one another rhythm wise or structure wise, it is the sonic elements that help define it. The hunt and selection of those sonic elements is a large part of the act of creation. If you are just taking preset sounds from your machines and samples off the latest hits in the genre you want to produce in, you might as well just use general midi, that's not producing, it's regurgitating, and by the stuff people are mentioning, them sounds would make me up chuck too.

^^^^ My thoughts exactly!

And it's really not about the age of the record you are sampling. I've got a lot of new stuff that I sample. A drummers only promo record with different drummers showing their skills... Lots of great new funk 7"s filled to the brim with crazy breaks.. All kinds of stuff, mostly pretty obscure/rare. I've sampled them and flipped them and whatever.. Of course I try to stick to old material, because chances are that the stuff on those old records is more rare...

I try not to sample from re-issues, but if that's what needed then I'll do it, it's not that big a deal. The reissues that I usually by are only for listeníng anyway, too obvious to be sampled. The thing about sampling from a hiphop record (well, 99% of them) is that you are not sampling the actual drum hits, you are sampling the samples. I've used this analogy before: It's like taking pictures of pictures.

--You can take a picture of an old statue, and if you know how to use that camera well and you have a good eye, then the end result can be "art".
But once you've got your picture up in some gallery, some a$$hole with a camera takes a photo of that picture and sells it to the next gallery. Would you call that art?

Neither would I..

cosign

jorge guzman wrote:i dont think he meant a break when he said sample.. breaks have been been used and reused since the days of 2 turntables and a mic.. but if a producer samples a hot as loop like the pete rock horns on t.r.o.y. and makes a flowers gem outta of it then u damn right its off limits.

if you find that record and are oblivious to the fact that its been used and you do your thing, its all game; but youll probably have to deal with the fact it was sampled already.

breaks are sort of like the canvas of a painting to me. its how you turn that canvas into a painting.

if you use the funky drummer and its wack, then its even wacker cause its been used.

No soy español, soy Latino por supuesto.

I sample my drums from my motif es also. Is that wrong. Yamaha makes accoustic instruments so i know where the sounds came from and thats from real drum kits. There is a type of sound one may get off of a record and thats why some still do it that way but we all must be open to new things and as times come and go somethings are gona become more easier to do but at the end of the day, where you get your drums from dont mean jack unless you know how to use them. I respect Kanye for telling the truth cause i dont think he is the only one doing it and look around alot of us are proof. Those who pass over good shit are always the ones who cry the most about it. Fukk a cod of sample ethics. People make up these secret code for everydamn thing but as person they living there life like a azzzz...but you always have a secret code. Please go to church and live right if you want to follow any kind of code!

I guess Most of U here have bought an 1000 dollar mpc sampler,
and is this because you`re trying to make drums/or beats on an higher level? If so why do you want to take an already sampled samples from an artist/musician/producer that you admire and his hard work? I guess many of want that particular sound that the producer uses and do not know how to get that sound.. I think that`s why U jack some elses.

the hip hop sound is based on breaks and samples coming from funk,soul & jazz records...

peace!

"What separates you from everyone else is
being able to make sick beats without using samps. Being original
and showing people you got mad skillz."

i disagree anyone can buy a fantom/motif/triton keyboard and make a commercially viable beat.

cos the sounds are already there all u gotta do is make the patterns, and alot of peeps just rework the presets like the neptunes.

Thats cool as u can b popular and make big money that way but people who dont sample are no more special than people who sample.

jpeg wrote:"What separates you from everyone else is
being able to make sick beats without using samps. Being original
and showing people you got mad skillz."

i disagree anyone can buy a fantom/motif/triton keyboard and make a commercially viable beat.

cos the sounds are already there all u gotta do is make the patterns, and alot of peeps just rework the presets like the neptunes.

Thats cool as u can b popular and make big money that way but people who dont sample are no more special than people who sample.

co sign that... as for the sampling issue, if you take an already used sample and try to flip it but the sample is still recognizable and a cat can be like ohh premo used that same sample then its wack... i have made beats and later come to find out the sample was used and even if im lovin the beat and i know its flipped differently i will throw that beat in my trash/freestyles zip to give away.. i dont really think is a big deal with drum hits but i still think its weak if you take a kick outta the lastest top 10 rap song...

To everybody that is against it, yall should look at it this way. There is not enuff open drums to make a good collection of drums, and one would still need other sources to find drums(records,sample cds,dot coms). I treat drums like a baseball card collector. If im playing a cd and that just so happens to have a spot that the drums are naked, im gona take them and add them to my collection but that dont me im gona just add it to a drum kit. also this dont mean im gona start buying cds hoping to find drums but if they are there ill take them. I still dig in the crates for drums but im not afraid to use other sources to find drums also. I love to mix and match drums to create new ones and sometimes that drum from a cd might give ya the thump you need to add the the other kick to make it bang. Hell didnt pete rock say he once use a sample cd, so whats the difference.

Anyone buying a MOTIF or TRITON is buying a collection of samples, so saying you need to make a song without samples is bullshit. There is hardly a way any of us could do it without acoustic instruments or pure analog gear ( 909 has samples too). People say it's easy, but it's not easy to do it well, when people really know what they are doing it is a whole new artform. Sadly, these clowns on the radio are just corporate moneymaking puppets dancing around with shiny chains and acting like old stereotypes.

Oh man, there are more open drums than I will ever be able to sample. They are all over, course you might only get 3 or 4 per record, but there are plenty of open drums, otherwise where did they guys on the CD's get them?

I have no problem with sample CD's except that they are generally a rip off, not as much usable stuff as promissed. Sampling current HH stuff is incest.

[quote=" Sampling current HH stuff is incest".[/quote]

LMAO

jpeg
Valued Member


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 88
"What separates you from everyone else is
being able to make sick beats without using samps. Being original
and showing people you got mad skillz."

i disagree anyone can buy a fantom/motif/triton keyboard and make a commercially viable beat.

cos the sounds are already there all u gotta do is make the patterns, and alot of peeps just rework the presets like the neptunes.

Thats cool as u can b popular and make big money that way but people who dont sample are no more special than people who sample.===========================================


Sure if you own a Triton or a Motif in which I do not but what separates
you and makes a Producer unique is creating a trk and a whole new
sound and have everybody feelin him cause his beat is sick without
the use of samples using musical notation eg. Bass,Guitar,Horns,Strings
I could take a cymbal and turn it into a instrument sound also I could
do the same with a kick with the current technology to be able to
manipulate sounds to achieve a desired sound without resorting to
sampling someones music off their CD or Vinyl.

My keyboard I use is a Casio CTK 541 and you know I just use it to
trigger sounds and instruments I got the 2KXL.

I love it when a cat can take a samp and flip it into a crazy beat but
is this person able to make his beats from scratch also
thats the question?

Iam not saying people who dont sample are any special thats what you
said.

Iam saying challenge yourself come up with your own idea but the
fact still remains that wether it's a sampled beat or not if it's what
the people want then the industry will back it and push and distribute
it you dont need to be a producer or a musician you could just be
a Disk Jockey and scoop up samples off vinyl and make a sick track
and he will be the next big Thang.