Some notes dropped after save? Bug? Any workarounds?

Hi, I've had this issue since creating my first track. I record in a pattern via a midi-connected keyboard and it sounds great during playback. I save it as an "all songs & sequences" periodically to avoid losing any work. All seems fine. However, next time I load the sequence (well, actually I'm loading a whole folder with mySongs.all and the programs and samples,) it sounds like some notes have been dropped. They have not actually been dropped, though. The notes are gone audibly, but I can verify they are there visually in a step-edit. The problem is that the note duration is not saving for all notes...instead some notes are being set to a duration of zero (no duration = no sound). Notably, this doesn't happen with every track, it appears to be random, but once it gets its claws into a track, I'm having a helluva time fixing it. Also, it's not any particular patch...I'm just using random presets. The box is only less than a week old and I've tried a factory reset, but am not sure how to pin this down. Any assistance in routing this out, or finding a workaround, or at least finding out I'm not the only one(!) would be helpful.

I was having this problem on another sequence as well, but in that case, changing the note durations seemed to have worked. Of course, now I'm afraid to mess with that track at all lest it starts acting up again! Anyway, on this new sequence, that isn't working...and I can't get all the notes' durations to save on the affected track.

My box has the RAM and DVD upgrades and OS 2.0 was already installed when I got it (according to the screen as it starts up, v2.0).

Also... did your MPC5k come with a CF card? I'm reading around the net and people seem to have gotten one with their box...and even the manual refers to the CF card that was included. Thing is, no card was included. I got this from musician's friend and it was supposed to be new?!

Thanks,

hayoo

...anyone out there?

Nobody but us waskally wabbits.

Thanks for at least a reply...

So, I heard back from Akai...and basically... I paid $2k for the MPC5k that didn't even come with a CF card like the manual says, $500 apiece for 2 RPM8 monitors, a memory upgrade for $160, a DVD upgrade for $200 + shipping... and now to get helped in a reasonable time-frame I have to pony up for long distance charges, too? And then possibly send it back for service...when it's only been out of the box for less than a week? Man, do I feel like a dumb-ass. I have a few more days to deal with them...if no resolution, I'm returning everything. The fact that they don't deal with support on a public forum, and instead handle it through secretive back-and-forth emails is very telling... Here's what Akai had to say.

Thank you for your interest in Akai Professional! I will be glad to help.

Sorry to hear about the difficulty you are having with our product.

The OS 2.0 has been a very reliable OS since going live for thousands of users, but can you give me some specifics of when you run into the difficulties you are? We are always looking to improve the experience with our products, and feedback is important to us to make these improvements.

Please let me know.

If you have any more questions, feel free to reply to this email or you can reach our support department for troubleshooting over the phone and/ or repair authorization by calling us at 401-658-3131 ext 1409. We are available to help you 8:30am - 6:30pm EST Monday through Friday (except holidays).

Best Regards,

Ross Goodwin
Technical Support/Return Authorization
Numark|Alesis|Akai|MixMeister|Ion|
200 Scenic View Drive
Cumberland, RI 02864
Phone : 401-658-5760

-Due to the high volume of email please include all original messages when replying to this message.

Sorry, just have a 1k/500 so no experience with this issue.

I'm pretty sure you should have gotten the CF card though, but they might just send you a replacement if you ask.

For some reason that issue sounds similar to what somebody else was having, but I cannot remember what the exact issue it was or if there was a resolution.

Any reason why you're not saving the entire memory? It probably wouldn't help, but you never know.

NearTao wrote:Sorry, just have a 1k/500 so no experience with this issue.

Hey, I appreciate your reply all the same. We have different equipment, but we're all on the same team.

I'm pretty sure you should have gotten the CF card though, but they might just send you a replacement if you ask.

I need to have gotten one before they can call it a replacement. I have inquired with Akai as to whether I can receive the CF card and will post back to this thread with my results. Thanks for the suggestion.

For some reason that issue sounds similar to what somebody else was having, but I cannot remember what the exact issue it was or if there was a resolution.

I did post something about it on this other thread since it was listed as an OS2 bug thread. However, that thread was all over the place and had turned into an unproductive flame-war -- it showed bad interactions and wasn't of any help at all so I'm not sure why it's a sticky at the top of the forum. Either way, it's counter-intuitive to put all bugs on a single thread, so I created a relevant thread here.

Any reason why you're not saving the entire memory? It probably wouldn't help, but you never know.

I had the same results with that, which is why I started saving the seq+songs. I thought that would be my workaround...but lo and behold...that has the same bug.

Thanks for your input.

Can you save track data to midi and still reproduce the bug?

Does it do it for all track data, or just sequence data that is recorded from (or for?) an external synth?

I use the MPC5000 OS 2.0 and have not experienced problems of this nature.

I did not receive the CF Card with my unit. You probably should call them and see if they can rectify your situation. I took too long to complaint and ended up just buying one for about $20. And, they really do come in handy!!!

I upgraded the RAM but have not purchased the DVD. I basically use computers for sequencing but have been giving the MPC a shot lately. I like the MPC5000 and the flavor it brings to production but it is only an add-on to the way I work. OK, enough about me for now.

So, where and how are you viewing your durations?

Are you sure that the note durations are showing "zero" after a save and reopen?

On my MPC5000, the lowest you can record or set/edit a duration is "1."

If your durations after a save and reopen show a "zero" value, there may be something wrong with your unit.

You said that you are using a MIDI connected keyboard to record your sequences. Could there possibly be a problem with the filtering on the keyboard. For instance, it maybe gated such that the durations are truncated and not being recorded at full value or the value you think you are playing. In other words, and this may be a long shot, but could the problem actually be a result of the keyboard you are using. Try recording something with just the MPC5000 pads and see if you experience the same problem.

How are you saving your work? You might want to save your sequences separately in a different location in addition to the "All Song Sequence" save. This may give you a backup and more reliability until you work through this problem. Just for fun and my own edification, I even sometime take the sequence file from the MPC disk and run and/or edit it from my computer sequencer (Digital Performer).

Good luck!

Mojamz

NearTao wrote:Can you save track data to midi and still reproduce the bug?

Does it do it for all track data, or just sequence data that is recorded from (or for?) an external synth?

Yes, saving the sequence alone does do the error. It's not particularly related to the external synth -- that's just how I was recording in the moment. It also happens when recording with pads -- or step recording. (The note durations look like and they play fine, I save it, immediately reload it, and the durations are shot.) Again, not on every track, and seeming at random.

mojamz wrote:I use the MPC5000 OS 2.0 and have not experienced problems of this nature.

I did not receive the CF Card with my unit. You probably should call them and see if they can rectify your situation. I took too long to complaint and ended up just buying one for about $20. And, they really do come in handy!!!

I upgraded the RAM but have not purchased the DVD. I basically use computers for sequencing but have been giving the MPC a shot lately. I like the MPC5000 and the flavor it brings to production but it is only an add-on to the way I work. OK, enough about me for now.

I did email them about it since I purchased about a week ago. Of course, I ordered some cards in the meantime -- who can get by on just one! I've sequenced on my Korg Triton Studio 76 and Roland XP-80 for probably 10 years, but haven't worked much (seriously) with any software sequencing. Latency has always been a fear of mine, so I haven't gone software at all.

So, where and how are you viewing your durations?

In Step Edit mode... [MODE] -> [Pad13].

Are you sure that the note durations are showing "zero" after a save and reopen?

Yes. I've verified it quite a few times... and my duration edits do save to other (non-buggin) tracks in the sequence. Additionally, there should be a "D" next to every note duration, and there's not. One will always be missing...yet when you scroll through the sequence (still in step edit) the missing D does not stay with any certain note, it stays in one certain spot as the notes scroll by -- if that makes sense. Not sure if that's an issue, but other tracks aren't like this.

On my MPC5000, the lowest you can record or set/edit a duration is "1."

Quite right. I cannot manually set a duration to 0 -- the MPC is doing it on its own. With some further scrutiny, I did find a couple other places (in the same affected tracks) where it set the duration to 1 and 2 as well. To test..., I am editing the durations on an affected track as well as a non-affected track, immediately saving "all seq+songs" (or alternatively, entire memory), and then immediately reloading to see if the changes saved. The durations for the non-affected track are saved and recalled, the durations for the affected track are zero'd out. I notice on some affected tracks, it has actually zero-duration'd the first several notes per bar. The changes that I make (even to durations) of non-affected tracks "take" and are saved/loaded properly.

If your durations after a save and reopen show a "zero" value, there may be something wrong with your unit.

After all I've read about this machine, "something wrong with the unit" sounds like par for the course here.

You said that you are using a MIDI connected keyboard to record your sequences. Could there possibly be a problem with the filtering on the keyboard. For instance, it maybe gated such that the durations are truncated and not being recorded at full value or the value you think you are playing. In other words, and this may be a long shot, but could the problem actually be a result of the keyboard you are using. Try recording something with just the MPC5000 pads and see if you experience the same problem.

No, I don't think it can be the keyboard since the error also occurs with pad recording and step recording. I have tried several different keyboard controllers to no avail.

How are you saving your work? You might want to save your sequences separately in a different location in addition to the "All Song Sequence" save. This may give you a backup and more reliability until you work through this problem. Just for fun and my own edification, I even sometime take the sequence file from the MPC disk and run and/or edit it from my computer sequencer (Digital Performer).

I have saved as 'all seq+songs' as well as an "entire memory" as well as an individual track. All methods of saving are producing (or should I say maintaining) the error.

Good luck!

Thanks. I appreciate your time and efforts.

OK - one more really looooong shot.

What you are describing sounds like it might be a RAM problem. Did you notice any "project saving" problems before you upgraded your RAM?

if you don't remember, you could test it by turning your unit off, removing the upgraded RAM, and then starting your unit again with just the basic RAM configuration. Next, create a new song, save it and, see if you still have the problem.

Alternatively, you could just re-seat the RAM (i.e. just take it out, inspect it, blow it off and put it back in). If you re-seat or remove the RAM for testing purposes, I suggest you leave the unit turned off for at least several minutes before testing it further

If all that fails, I would definitely return the unit.

Actually, I got the RAM before I got the MPC...so I installed it right away before saving anything. I've created a few new projects and can't recreate the error in them. Yet.

...on another note... I created a deadly bass with the VAS, and a bunch of slick beats. About the error: fingers crossed it was a fluke. :\ ...and reprogram those other sequences from scratch.

I'll keep this thread updated if it happens in a newly created song.