AKAI says they will change the way we make music forever @ m

SimonInAustralia wrote:

Coz wrote:There must be a good reason for Akai to include 16 Q-Links on the MPC-Ren, other than to just double the previous count on the 5k?

To control parameters in the VST plugins that the VMPC software supports?

yeah, like maschine, this is one of my favorite things.

in maschine you load up a vst on your pads, it could either be an instrument or effect applied to the pad. the params of the vst are auto mapped to the knobs.

so basically what my normal thing to do is to have say a kick, snare, and hihat on 3 pads....then I load an eq on each one, and tweak my drums. its great, i can use the built in effects, or use something like an ssl channel from my waves mercury bundle.

so yes, if the MPC-R software can do this (host vsts for each pad and each track), that would be killer.

the more knobs, the more fun tweaking youll have.

JamesJeffery wrote:Who needs lots of knobs and buttons?

Knobs for lots of VST parameters that you have not had in an MPC before.

Only maybe 5 more buttons than an MPC3000, not that many considering the increased functionality that you are controlling.

I think it is growing on me, if the user interaction with the control surface/screen is much the same as when using an older MPC, as I think it probably will be, then it looks pretty good, and should give the same MPC experience in operation.

If it is under $1000, it will give a lot of MPC for not much $.

Only problem is being tied to a computer.

I think this sort of thing means that at a certain stage in the life of the instrument, as you upgrade your computer and operating systems, the MPC software will become incompatible, you will probably need to dedicate an older computer to run the software/controller, and be able to maintain that computer and OS.

As opposed to a standalone MPC that will always operate the same way internally.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

JamesJeffery wrote:Who needs lots of knobs and buttons? Just the basics to get the job done is all you need. These days you have the Lemur iPad app for complete and customisable control.

Remove the buttons from any MPC and see how far you get, of course you need dedicated buttons.

A older standalone MPC is just a control surface to control the internal MPC software, a large part of what makes it good to work with are the dedicated buttons for a lot of the functions.

The new MPC controller looks like it is much more than an MPD, lots of dedicated buttons assigned to VMPC software functions, much like a 'real' MPC.

There is no reason that the workflow on the MPC control surface can not be similar to a 'real' MPC.

As for the knobs, if the MPC controller is controlling VMPC software that supports VST plugins, why not have lots of assignable knobs?

With the VMPC software there is a whole lot more that needs control, so lots of knobs makes sense.

Lots of hate for not much reason it seems, wait until it comes out and you have had a go on it before so much hate.

I'm not really into it, but I don't think it looks that bad.

The real problem, based on Akai's track record, is going to be buggy software that never gets fixed, and advertised features that never get implemented, before they move onto the next music/life changing device.

See the knobs on the left. They have no names. They are assignable. This is not a bad thing, But they could have took 4 out and put in a slider. The true MPCs don't have that many knobs, which makes you question what are they for, and why the need for them all.

I wasn't referring to buttons/knobs on true MPC's they all have a purpose. I was talking about the assignable knobs on the Ren.

SimonInAustralia wrote:Only problem is being tied to a computer.

I think this sort of thing means that at a certain stage in the life of the instrument, as you upgrade your computer and operating systems, the MPC software will become incompatible, you will probably need to dedicate an older computer to run the software/controller, and be able to maintain that computer and OS.

As opposed to a standalone MPC that will always operate the same way internally.

But you can say the same thing about any DAW or controller.

JAH wrote:But you can say the same thing about any DAW or controller.

Yes, you can, same with software synths, but compared to an older MPC, this is something different.

If you don't have a working computer that runs the software, it is useless, this is going to be a problem years down the track, unlike older MPCs.

A lot of software is disposable for this reason, companies go out of business, support stops, etc., the new MPC will be like that, older MPCs are not.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

JamesJeffery wrote:Who needs lots of knobs and buttons?

Knobs for lots of VST parameters that you have not had in an MPC before.

Only maybe 5 more buttons than an MPC3000, not that many considering the increased functionality that you are controlling.

I think it is growing on me, if the user interaction with the control surface/screen is much the same as when using an older MPC, as I think it probably will be, then it looks pretty good, and should give the same MPC experience in operation.

If it is under $1000, it will give a lot of MPC for not much $.

Only problem is being tied to a computer.

I think this sort of thing means that at a certain stage in the life of the instrument, as you upgrade your computer and operating systems, the MPC software will become incompatible, you will probably need to dedicate an older computer to run the software/controller, and be able to maintain that computer and OS.

As opposed to a standalone MPC that will always operate the same way internally.

Which I was I noted the Lemur iPad app and control surfaces that exist solely for manipulation of VSTs. But you have to remember the MPC didn't need knobs to control VSTs because that wasn't it's intended purpose.

The Lemur is a great example of a revolutionary product that left it's users, including myself, hanging. Still, the software is usable ... for now.

But, if the Akai DAW does not support VSTs, then using a VST with the Ren. such as Kontakt or Battery will make for an expensive controller depending on the price of the Ren. All for the sake of having an MPC look a like. Because if you're using the Ren. to control VSTs and not the Akai DAW all it is, is a controller and you lose the benefit of it's intended purpose.

JamesJeffery wrote:See the knobs on the left. They have no names. They are assignable. This is not a bad thing, But they could have took 4 out and put in a slider. The true MPCs don't have that many knobs, which makes you question what are they for, and why the need for them all.

I wasn't referring to buttons/knobs on true MPC's they all have a purpose. I was talking about the assignable knobs on the Ren.

Knobs for VST plugins, MPCs didn't have them before.

Buttons for lots of functions/plugins/etc., that MPCs didn't have before.

I think you should have a play with one, when they are available, before hating so much.

via twitter, akai told me when asked about it being the end of the real (hardware standalone MPCs

"No this is just a new line We will always continue our stand alone units."

Not sure I really believe that, esp from what people have been saying about 5K support

SimonInAustralia wrote:

JamesJeffery wrote:See the knobs on the left. They have no names. They are assignable. This is not a bad thing, But they could have took 4 out and put in a slider. The true MPCs don't have that many knobs, which makes you question what are they for, and why the need for them all.

I wasn't referring to buttons/knobs on true MPC's they all have a purpose. I was talking about the assignable knobs on the Ren.

Knobs for VST plugins, MPCs didn't have them before.

Buttons for lots of functions/plugins/etc., that MPCs didn't have before.

I think you should have a play with one, when they are available, before hating so much.

Can you not read? Jesus christ give me some bloody strength here.

You've basically told me what I just said. And then I went on to add that if you are using the Ren as a midi controller OUTSIDE OF THE AKAI DAW then you are basically using it as a very expensive midi controller and you won't get the benefits of it's intended purpose i.e. being used alongside the Akai DAW.

And if you're using it with VSTs why spend the additional money on an expensive controller just to have an MPC look a like which then becomes absolutely nothing like an MPC at all (a side from the way it looks).

I like this! I won't be the first in line for it since we all know how Akai is with fixing bugs, but the idea is great! If anyone has ever traveled with their MPC, you know how much of a burden it can be. It won't replace my MPC, but i can see myself placing the 2500 in the bag for local shows.
I don't think it needs to be a standalone unit either. Everyone on here uses a computer, so why not utilize the processing power from it? I'd rather use the 2tb's HD and 8gb of ram from my mac than hope Akai gives us a whopping 256mb of ram or another 32mb compact flash! Sure you can hook your MPC up to protools, but I'd rather avoid protools. Personally, I don't like tracking out, and this is a MAJOR reason why most people will jump ship. 8 outs isn't necessary anymore with USB. With so much extra weight cut out, there is no reason a Controller should be anywhere close to the price of a Music Production Center
If the Renaissance can read my 2500 JJOS files, I'm all in, but there is NO WAY that I will pay $999 for a controller! $499 is a stretch, but I'll sell my Mbox to offset the cost.
PS: Akai, (1) realize that the world is still in a recession, and (2) take note that an Ipad is $499 and can do much more. Please don't get stupid with the price.

JamesJeffery wrote:But, if the Akai DAW does not support VSTs, then using a VST with the Ren. such as Kontakt or Battery will make for an expensive controller depending on the price of the Ren. All for the sake of having an MPC look a like. Because if you're using the Ren. to control VSTs and not the Akai DAW all it is, is a controller and you lose the benefit of it's intended purpose.

Wait until you use it before talking definitively about what it can and can't do, and what it is and isn't like to use.

It is an MPC, not an MPC look alike, while using the knobs to control VST plugins the rest of it still will work exactly like the control surface on every older MPC, it isn't one or the other.

It isn't going to need Kontact or Battery, it is still going to operate like an MPC without requiring the purchase of drum sampling/machine VST plugins.

Every other MPC has a control surface, a sequencer, a sampler, effects, etc., this is just running the sequencer/sampler/effects on the external computer instead of the internal computer.

Have a good look at it, it still has the same MPC control surface, with the same sort of controls on it, it still has the MPC LCD display, these are what you interact with on an older MPC, why do you think this is going to be so different in actual music making use?

The video shows with VMPC software, it doesn't look like there is much interaction that you have to do with the computer screen when actually using the MPC. It does look like a lot of the file management tasks would be a lot easier on the computer, file storage/editing/program setup/etc.

There is no reason why actually using it will be that much different to using an older MPC.

It is much, much more than just a normal MIDI controller like an MPD.

I don't understand the hysterical level of hate on the thing.

JamesJeffery wrote:Can you not read? Jesus christ give me some bloody strength here.

You've basically told me what I just said. And then I went on to add that if you are using the Ren as a midi controller OUTSIDE OF THE AKAI DAW then you are basically using it as a very expensive midi controller and you won't get the benefits of it's intended purpose i.e. being used alongside the Akai DAW.

And if you're using it with VSTs why spend the additional money on an expensive controller just to have an MPC look a like which then becomes absolutely nothing like an MPC at all (a side from the way it looks).

No, you don't get it, you would be using VST plugins within the MPC software, not externally, not outside of the Akai DAW.

The VST plugins are instruments and effects inside the MPC.

The MPC would be able to operate without buying additional VST plugs, but the option is there if you want to.

It is an MPC, that you can load VST plugins into.

You really don't seem to have much of an idea, carry on hating, I'm over arguing with you, it really doesn't bother me at all, I think it looks like a great bit of kit.

cyrus wrote: if all akai did was make a virtual copy of itself, I do not think that is enough, entering the realm of software there are somethings that simpley dont translate the same, even if you try to mimic the workflow, it just wont work, you have to adapt.

Completely agree - just copying the MPC will not work at all, it has to evolve and integrate into the computer environment, hopefully with some innovative features thrown in. I'm hoping they had some real intelligent, forward thinking, actual working producers involved in the development of this product to ensure that people were thinking outside of the box when coming up with the spec, while also appreciating the actual needs of a working producer.

And if it's found lacking, hopefully they will be listening and quickly reacting to their customer's concerns with lots of free updates and fixes.

JamesJeffery wrote:But, if the Akai DAW does not support VSTs, then using a VST with the Ren. such as Kontakt or Battery will make for an expensive controller depending on the price of the Ren. All for the sake of having an MPC look a like. Because if you're using the Ren. to control VSTs and not the Akai DAW all it is, is a controller and you lose the benefit of it's intended purpose.

The MPC software supports VSTs FFS!...
http://www.akaiprompc.com/mpcrenaissanc ... d_features

MPC SOFTWARE
- 64-track sequencing capability
- Massive 6GB+ sound library, including all of the sounds of the classic MPC3000
- Instant mapping and real-time adjustment of VST plug-ins
- Record each track as an MPC drum program, Keygroup program or VST plug-in

MPC-Tutor wrote:And if it's found lacking, hopefully they will be listening and quickly reacting to their customer's concerns with lots of free updates and fixes.

Hahaaaaaaa....haaa....ha, you are kidding, right?