MPC Renaissance and MPC Studio v1.3 & 1.31 Bug Reports

krissserz wrote:- -

01_ I just CAN'T put specific parameters to ANY effect. EQ, HP, NAME IT. With the Data Dial, with the Q-Links, even with the Numeric Keypad. I put "0", and it goes to "-1.3". I put "200", and it goes to "354".


02_ I just don't understand the Track Mixer... WHY are the Sequences independent of the Track Mixer? WHY? (The numbers I assign to the Track Mixer aren't applied to all of my Sequences...)

Let's say I set specific levels on the Track Mixer while I'm on Sequence 01. And afterwards, on Sequence 02, I decide to change the levels on the Track Mixer. Well... The changes I made on the Track Mixer while I was on Sequence 02 don't apply on Sequence 01.

The issue you are having with attempting to dial in a specific value on your effects is not a Ren specific issue. I tried using 3rd party effects in other DAWs and see the same results. If you are trying to enter a certain value that the FX param doesn't support, such as typing in 200 in a Volume field that ranges from -20 db to 6 db, you will not get exactly what you expect. The param will be set to the closest value. In your response above, 200 is likely an unsupported value for the FX param you are trying to edit.

I do notice that the data dial, Qlinks, and your mouse have different resolutions. So you will get different results depending on which device you use.

As far as the Sequence behavior you are seeing....this is not a bug. This is how MPCs are designed. Track Mixers are independent. They are not global. Look at the Ren's Sequences like you would look at a Pro Tools Session or a Logic Project.

JAH wrote:The issue you are having with attempting to dial in a specific value on your effects is not a Ren specific issue. I tried using 3rd party effects in other DAWs and see the same results. If you are trying to enter a certain value that the FX param doesn't support, such as typing in 200 in a Volume field that ranges from -20 db to 6 db, you will not get exactly what you expect. The param will be set to the closest value. In your response above, 200 is likely an unsupported value for the FX param you are trying to edit.

Thanks for answering. But that still doesn't explain the following:

a) when I type in "0", it goes to "-0.3", etc.

b) when I type "0", it shows "0", but when I set another value on another parameter, the previous parameter changes numbers all by itself.

c) when I turn the Q-Link of a certain parameter to the max, sometimes it gives me a number, and sometimes it gives me another number altogether. And this is't for different Effects… I'm saying: the same parameter for the same Effect.

This is sporadic behaviour.

Also, with the sensitivity of the Q-Links, it's a nightmare to get the parameters you want.

JAH wrote:I do notice that the data dial, Qlinks, and your mouse have different resolutions. So you will get different results depending on which device you use.

Thanks for answering again. But this makes absolutely no sense to me...

JAH wrote:As far as the Sequence behavior you are seeing....this is not a bug. This is how MPCs are designed. Track Mixers are independent. They are not global. Look at the Ren's Sequences like you would look at a Pro Tools Session or a Logic Project.

Thanks for your answer. But again, this makes absolutely no sense to me...

If there was a workaround, for example, where we could control a program globally (i.e. volume, panning, effects, etc.) it would be fine. But it's not the case, isn't it?

I've seen the same behavior and more issues along the same lines... was preparing a video to show their occurrence.

Happened to me a few times, usually resulting in a crash, but yeah I've experienced the same thing. Certain values in program edit, or effects section, and a few other places I would get these wierd numbers popping up and sometimes they would change on their own even on parameters that werent selected. Like You said, I can dial in a value of 5 for example but it starts randomly changing to other numbers, hasnt happened to me enough where I can give more details but I will keep an eye out.

krissserz wrote:- -
02_ WHY are the Sequences independent of the Track Mixer? WHY?
Let's say I set specific levels on the Track Mixer while I'm on Sequence 01. And afterwards, on Sequence 02, I decide to change the levels on the Track Mixer. Well... The changes I made on the Track Mixer while I was on Sequence 02 don't apply on Sequence 01.
WTF!?!??
It's the SAME beat! The SAME project! So each Sequence has its own track assignments? How on earth is that good?

OH yes - yesterday I had an absolute nightmare with this. Only had the Ren a couple of weeks so I was only messing around with one sequence - didnt notice it. More later...

JAH wrote:
As far as the Sequence behavior you are seeing....this is not a bug. This is how MPCs are designed. Track Mixers are independent. They are not global. Look at the Ren's Sequences like you would look at a Pro Tools Session or a Logic Project.

Agreed, it isnt a bug, but it feels like the worst one I have ever experienced. Just because this is how MPCs have worked before doesnt make a 25 year old midi mixer model a system for a modern day VST and mixing environment. A sequence is nothing like a logic or Pro tools session - a sequence is like a multitimbral VST such as Kontakt and its accompany midi tracks. You dont have to mess around changing every midi region if you make any changes to Kontakts mixer channels. Yet that is how the Rens mixer operates now. Its current implementation should be a feature (I can see creative possibilities) But it most definitely should NOT be the default setting

........................................

What Ive written below is for anyone who hasnt recognised whats going on with the mixer. Its not a bug - but its feels like a massive one. To experience this you must create multiple sequences and start making mixer changes which includes inserted processing plugins such as EQ etc. those changes will not be carried across all your sequences. This is very important I believe.



Started using the pads/next seq to work out the flow of the arrangement. As I was doing this I'm feeling the moment and started enhancing that vibe adding a processing plugin here and there, changed levels, increased sends, adjusted EQ - as you do because mixing is an evolving process - we do it as we feel it. So I'm making changes across random sequences as I'm performing a pseudo arrangement not realising at this time my level, eq, an dvarious processing plugin changes operated on a per seqeunce basis NOT on a track basis. Then I started hearing things were not as they should be when changing to various sequences THE MIX WAS DIFFERENT across various sequences - and Im thinking to my self I could swear I eq'ed that sound with a bit more mid gain, Im certain I increased the send level on that track.
THEN IT DAWNED ON ME what was going on. Essentially any changes you make on one sequences track levels, or plugin settings, eq etc is not carried across all tracks.

This road block forces us in to a creatively restrictive mode of thinking/working. Any mistakes - ie not being able to see in to the future means we will be punished.


The Ren is not like any of the hardware MPCs because its very much a complete solution and the major point is its a VST host which should have automatically nulled the old MPC60 model. Someone clearly wasn't thinking at nAkai. When I want a creative change to the mix during the song I will add it in my self.

This issue will rear its head for many in the years to come. It will also prevent many people from buying the Ren once it becomes common knowledge. If there are only a handful of us who want a proper universal mixer which is exactly what every Daw and pseudo Daw has (aka - Maschine, Spark etc) I cant see this ever being changed. But why would anyone not want a mixer that works universally?


We need an option for universal track mixer.

@labcoats

Allelujah.

What nAkai have done is basically adhere to the MPC 60 model. For chrissakes - thats 25+ years ago based around a simple midi volume mixer. That was great then, I get how useful it was for adding volume changes on drums on a per sequence basis.

But its a joke to use that model in a 2013 Pseduo Daw/Massive VST/Mixing machine which massively surpasses the capability of the MPC60.

Agreed, it isnt a bug, but it feels like the worst one I have ever experienced. [/b] Just because this is how MPCs have worked before doesnt make a 25 year old midi mixer model a system for a modern day VST and mixing environment. A sequence is nothing like a logic or Pro tools session - a sequence is like a multitimbral VST such as Kontakt and its accompany midi tracks. You dont have to mess around changing every midi region if you make any changes to Kontakts mixer channels. Yet that is how the Rens mixer operates now. Its current implementation should be a feature (I can see creative possibilities) But it most definitely should NOT be the default setting

Look at an MPC Sequence as a 128 Track Project/Session as seen in the leading DAWs. These Tracks can consist of MPC drum or keygroup tracks, Plugin instrument tracks, or MIDI tracks. It's easier to understand when you look at it this way.

Can you load multiple Pro Tools Sessions? And when you adjust the mixer of one session, is the mix applied to the other session? Same principle as an MPC.

IDK if this is a bug or if it was intended purposely (as this is my first MPC), but when I load a drum or (anything) while the beat is playing the song stops and I have to press play again

Rather annoying when youre testing to see if your drums fit well with a sample

If this is intended, Could this be bypassed ?


MBP 10.8.2
1.3.1

Q. Shepard wrote:IDK if this is a bug or if it was intended purposely (as this is my first MPC), but when I load a drum or (anything) while the beat is playing the song stops and I have to press play again

Rather annoying when youre testing to see if your drums fit well with a sample

If this is intended, Could this be bypassed ?


MBP 10.8.2
1.3.1

The Ren's sequencer stops when loading files. This is as designed.

JAH wrote:

Q. Shepard wrote:IDK if this is a bug or if it was intended purposely (as this is my first MPC), but when I load a drum or (anything) while the beat is playing the song stops and I have to press play again

Rather annoying when youre testing to see if your drums fit well with a sample

If this is intended, Could this be bypassed ?


MBP 10.8.2
1.3.1

The Ren's sequencer stops when loading files. This is as designed.

Yeah, just figured this out haha
Does that when adding pretty much anything

I guess ill put in a feature request

JAH wrote:Look at an MPC Sequence as a 128 Track Project/Session as seen in the leading DAWs. These Tracks can consist of MPC drum or keygroup tracks, Plugin instrument tracks, or MIDI tracks. It's easier to understand when you look at it this way.

Can you load multiple Pro Tools Sessions? And when you adjust the mixer of one session, is the mix applied to the other session? Same principle as an MPC.

Your suggesting we stick to one sequence - hence I suspect you know your self this is convoluted. A pro tools session does not equal an MPC sequence.

What your saying is treat a sequence as a song - I get that. I can work on ten sequences (ie ten songs) at the same time. Why would I want to do that? Why would I want to limit my self to one sequence. What is the point of the play next seq function unless they are pretty much direct copies (no musical variations setup on different tracks) of the very first sequence we make..If Maschine or any other drum machine virtual or not operated like this when changing patterns/scenes there would be uproar. If a daw forced users to create a new mixer track + plugins every time they simply wanted to add a new variation to a part using another track there would be uproar. But that is exactly what we have to with the Ren.

Even with one sequence we still dont get an overall programme to track mixing system. if i sequence a drum kit using 8 tracks - a very normal option for many - and lets say I create three tracks for the same hi hats - I have to copy the exact plugins/settings/volumes for those three tracks even though its the same sound, and all I want to do is vary the hi hat pattern - not change the sound and copy the plugins and settings (manually) over to each variation. Come on jah, you must see how long winded that is. We must have the option of sending those hi hat tracks to the same mixer channel. A universal mode option - or something like that. Such an option would not affect in any way how it currently works. Anyway, I dont want to clog up the bugs thread with this. I can only pray Akai realise this and make some changes in ver 1.4. Im not holding my breath though..

I just don't understand how Akai thinks we make beats... Making a whole song in one Sequence only? What!?

My beats are made of tens of Sequences! Each one having subtle changes, or literally have structure changes, or fills, or different patterns/themes all by themselves... (During this process, I, OF COURSE, change the mix of my different instruments MULTIPLE TIMES). After all my Sequences are done, I arrange everything is Song Mode.

Making a three minute beat in one Sequence only is insane.

Alright then... Will have to find some kind of workaround. Thanks.

I just think the whole 'effects not carrying over to all sequences' thing is just something akai has overlooked while trying to make the Ren stable and adding features it should have had already. I think they will fix it by 1.4, bc I know other mpcs didnt work like that. You could add an effect and it will effect every sequence. Its def a workflow killer, thats not how mpcs were designed to work with one long linear sequence. Thats what sequences are for, you put sequences together to make a song. It's def a bug, no way akai can be that stupid to actually design it and intend it to work that way. NO WAY. They cant be that stupid. Every sequence in a project should be based on the same mixer and effects. Dont listen to Jah, hes basically telling you to treat a sequence as if it were a project, that might be the work around for now but its not supposed to be like that.

labcoats wrote:

JAH wrote:Look at an MPC Sequence as a 128 Track Project/Session as seen in the leading DAWs. These Tracks can consist of MPC drum or keygroup tracks, Plugin instrument tracks, or MIDI tracks. It's easier to understand when you look at it this way.

Can you load multiple Pro Tools Sessions? And when you adjust the mixer of one session, is the mix applied to the other session? Same principle as an MPC.

Your suggesting we stick to one sequence.

I am suggesting you work within the confines of the product spec and differentiate between a feature request and a bug. Sequences in MPCs do not share the same Track Mixer. Programs/Program Mixers can be applied across multiple MPC Sequences.

And an MPC Sequence is like a Project or Session in a DAW. How specifically are they different? An MPC Sequence can be your Song. Song Mode is an option not something you must use. Next Sequence showcases how you can trigger different Sequences (Project/Session) in a Live performance. When you want to combine multiple sequences into a create a song, you do this in Song Mode. If you want this Song made up of different sequences to have the same track mixer, you convert it to a single sequence. The track settings of the first sequence will be applied to the other sequences. That is how MPCs work.