Formatting Hard Drive is it working?

hi4k wrote:

atestarr wrote:In a way though, they're both slow compared to load times in an SSD equipped laptop, so it's the difference of glacial vs painfully slow. If the external SSD fits your workflow it might be better overall. Still, you could have external hard drives to import/export files via aksys and have an internal SSD in the MPC. (Or not) I got along just fine with an MPC 2KXL with a flash card reader. That was sloooooow.

And, here's where things get even more painful. I'm using W7 which doesn't work well with AKSYS. However, I could set up an older OS to accommodate AKSYS if it were to fit well with my workflow. The main things are not jumping through hoops to get sounds in and out of the MPC, and preferably have it done quickly (second priority).

Can someone comments on the external SCSI interface, in terms of speed, versus the internal IDE connection? As an alternate to the 'custom internal cold-swappble SSD/SATA interface via empty expansion slot reappropriation and custom metalwork', I would just get a SCSI to SATA adaptor (assuming this would work), stick the SSD in an enclosure and be done with it. Having the drive be internal is just a bonus as my MPC is stationary.

Secondly, can someone comment on the speed of moving files around with AKSYS? Is it painful like the front USB connector might be?

scsi is fastest. remeber there is an internal scsi port too

rogue scrunt wrote:

hi4k wrote:

atestarr wrote:In a way though, they're both slow compared to load times in an SSD equipped laptop, so it's the difference of glacial vs painfully slow. If the external SSD fits your workflow it might be better overall. Still, you could have external hard drives to import/export files via aksys and have an internal SSD in the MPC. (Or not) I got along just fine with an MPC 2KXL with a flash card reader. That was sloooooow.

And, here's where things get even more painful. I'm using W7 which doesn't work well with AKSYS. However, I could set up an older OS to accommodate AKSYS if it were to fit well with my workflow. The main things are not jumping through hoops to get sounds in and out of the MPC, and preferably have it done quickly (second priority).

Can someone comments on the external SCSI interface, in terms of speed, versus the internal IDE connection? As an alternate to the 'custom internal cold-swappble SSD/SATA interface via empty expansion slot reappropriation and custom metalwork', I would just get a SCSI to SATA adaptor (assuming this would work), stick the SSD in an enclosure and be done with it. Having the drive be internal is just a bonus as my MPC is stationary.

Secondly, can someone comment on the speed of moving files around with AKSYS? Is it painful like the front USB connector might be?

scsi is fastest. remeber there is an internal scsi port too

Pointing out what rogue scrunt said above..when i had my 2000xl. there was a thread over on the 2000 forums about using the internal scsi connector of the 2kxl to install an internal H.D. i think it was started by juke79er... any way with an acard scsi to ide adapter i was able to install a 20 gig H.D in that machine without issue. It also had the card reader installed.

I was thinking of using the internal scsi to of the 4k to install a card reader in the opening right over the hard drive. kinda like what we did for the 2kxl. i know it has a front usb port, & all you have to do is connect an external card reader, but for me i would like it installed so i dont have to keep up with it. i I have multiple computers in the studio so i do more transfers by card than aksys......thought id share that.

rogue scrunt wrote:
scsi is fastest. remeber there is an internal scsi port too

Are you sure?

What speed is the MPC4000's SCSI bus?
And what speed is its IDE bus?

i cannot prove it, but external scsi 10,000 rpm HD was the fastesr loading of all my drives

Furthermore i feel that the bottle neck is the MPC os.

I'm just getting started reading this, but maybe your SCSI drive was high quality, (10,000 rpm) plus ATA seems to be stripped down SCSI, and it seems that SCSI is more efficient at data transfer for a number of reasons I can barely comprehend mainly because I play the saxophone and don't know crap about electrical engineering. It seems like IDE (ATA) has issues with bottle-necking whereas SCSI seems to be able to run multiple devices per controller. Hard to know what is what without knowing actual IDE vs SCSI bus speeds on MPC either.

A link to a random internet site regarding ide vs scsi: http://www.milosoftware.com/mike/scsi_ide.html

For the life of me, I am unable to locate the internal SCSI connector. I didn't take out the 8 analog out expansion, so I suspect it is under there. It did not appear clearly in the service manual or user's manual.

With some more specifications on the bus speed of the internal IDE and SCSI mechanisms, we might be able to better speculate on whether SCSI is faster.

I'm still awaiting my internal IDE -> SATA connector from Kingwin so I can connect my Intel 320. If the SCSI connector will be noticeably faster, I would be happy to get a SCSI->SATA adapter instead.

Does anyone know if the SCSI bus is faster than the IDE bus, assuming the hard drive is not the bottleneck (fast SSD drive)?

Thanks.

I would be using some sort of internal CF reader or SSD, rather than a hard drive, to keep it as quiet as possible.

hi4k wrote:For the life of me, I am unable to locate the internal SCSI connector. I didn't take out the 8 analog out expansion, so I suspect it is under there. It did not appear clearly in the service manual or user's manual.

With some more specifications on the bus speed of the internal IDE and SCSI mechanisms, we might be able to better speculate on whether SCSI is faster.

I'm still awaiting my internal IDE -> SATA connector from Kingwin so I can connect my Intel 320. If the SCSI connector will be noticeably faster, I would be happy to get a SCSI->SATA adapter instead.

Does anyone know if the SCSI bus is faster than the IDE bus, assuming the hard drive is not the bottleneck (fast SSD drive)?

Thanks.

There may not be an internal SCSI connector - Akai may have included an external connector just to allow loading of earlier S and MPC type samples.

The 4k was already well served with an IDE hard drive and USB port.

SCSI bus is definitely faster than IDE, but in the 4k the bottleneck is elsewhere. I'v tried an IDE SSD, SATA SSD and USB and they are not faster than the original IDE drive, but they do win out because they have zero spin up time.
It's worth having an SSD/card reader because when you press save or load the menu comes up instantly instead of waiting for a spinning drive. It's pretty cool IMO.

there is an internal scsi bus

MPCdawk wrote:

hi4k wrote:For the life of me, I am unable to locate the internal SCSI connector. I didn't take out the 8 analog out expansion, so I suspect it is under there. It did not appear clearly in the service manual or user's manual.

With some more specifications on the bus speed of the internal IDE and SCSI mechanisms, we might be able to better speculate on whether SCSI is faster.

I'm still awaiting my internal IDE -> SATA connector from Kingwin so I can connect my Intel 320. If the SCSI connector will be noticeably faster, I would be happy to get a SCSI->SATA adapter instead.

Does anyone know if the SCSI bus is faster than the IDE bus, assuming the hard drive is not the bottleneck (fast SSD drive)?

Thanks.

There may not be an internal SCSI connector - Akai may have included an external connector just to allow loading of earlier S and MPC type samples.

The 4k was already well served with an IDE hard drive and USB port.

SCSI bus is definitely faster than IDE, but in the 4k the bottleneck is elsewhere. I'v tried an IDE SSD, SATA SSD and USB and they are not faster than the original IDE drive, but they do win out because they have zero spin up time.
It's worth having an SSD/card reader because when you press save or load the menu comes up instantly instead of waiting for a spinning drive. It's pretty cool IMO.

MPCdawk wrote:

hi4k wrote:For the life of me, I am unable to locate the internal SCSI connector. I didn't take out the 8 analog out expansion, so I suspect it is under there. It did not appear clearly in the service manual or user's manual.

With some more specifications on the bus speed of the internal IDE and SCSI mechanisms, we might be able to better speculate on whether SCSI is faster.

I'm still awaiting my internal IDE -> SATA connector from Kingwin so I can connect my Intel 320. If the SCSI connector will be noticeably faster, I would be happy to get a SCSI->SATA adapter instead.

Does anyone know if the SCSI bus is faster than the IDE bus, assuming the hard drive is not the bottleneck (fast SSD drive)?

Thanks.

There may not be an internal SCSI connector - Akai may have included an external connector just to allow loading of earlier S and MPC type samples.

The 4k was already well served with an IDE hard drive and USB port.

SCSI bus is definitely faster than IDE, but in the 4k the bottleneck is elsewhere. I'v tried an IDE SSD, SATA SSD and USB and they are not faster than the original IDE drive, but they do win out because they have zero spin up time.
It's worth having an SSD/card reader because when you press save or load the menu comes up instantly instead of waiting for a spinning drive. It's pretty cool IMO.

rogue scrunt wrote:there is an internal scsi bus

yeah...if you read in the service manual they mention it, they put it there so we could install a internal zip drive.

MPCdawk wrote:SCSI bus is definitely faster than IDE, but in the 4k the bottleneck is elsewhere.

What is making you guys assert this?
There are a lot of different SCSI standards.
Have a look at the table on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI#Parallel_SCSI

I can't find a definitive statement in the MPC4000 documentation, but the 50 pin SCSI connector suggests it is a "Ultra2 SCSI" (aka "Fast-40") bus. That gives it a max throughput of 40 MB/s

Compare this with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrate ... sfer_modes

Again, I can't be 100% sure but I think the MPC4000 has a UDMA4 (ATA66) IDE bus, which offers a max throughput of 66MB/s.... i.e. faster than the SCSI bus.

hi4k wrote:

atestarr wrote:Are you using the Kingwin IDE to Sata converter? That seems to improve the 'hanging' I experienced. Also I used a crucial SSD which formatted relatively quickly in the MPC.

P.S. I use a small Rain Stick to hold up the lid of the MPC. Relatively soothing for several seconds until reality sets back in.

No, I picked the cheapest one I could find on eBay ($3.69 including shipping from Shenzen). Whoops. They look almost identical but perhaps that is the issue as you pointed out.

Will try to report back once I get the Kingwin.

I installed the Kingwin SATA <-> IDE and all is well. The el-cheapo $3.69 converter from eBay didn't work correctly. You get what you pay for.

Once I installed the Kingwin I was able to full-format from the MPC 4000 Disk Utility menu fairly quickly.

I am using an Intel 320 SSD which has a typical SATA connector that fits into the Kingwin adaptor.

On a side note, my Intel 320 came with a very nice SATA -> USB cable which plugs right into my computer. This is *super* fast for dropping large sound sets on to the Akai-formatted drive. Works well. I've already dropped in all the stuff from the old Deskstar and obviated the need for this noisy klunker.

I'd like to retrofit in a cold-pluggable interface into the removable connector in the front, right where the hard drive bay is located. Not sure what the original intention for this hole is, but it seems to be a good match to retro-fit in the removable bay.

Has anyone retrofitted a cold-swap drive bay into the MPC 4000 before? Are there any tips or tricks to accomplish this? I'd prefer to avoid hacking together some poorly rigged removable drive bay; curious if there is a cheap aftermarket solution.

Thanks.

hi4k wrote:I am using an Intel 320 SSD which has a typical SATA connector that fits into the Kingwin adaptor.

On a side note, my Intel 320 came with a very nice SATA -> USB cable which plugs right into my computer. This is *super* fast for dropping large sound sets on to the Akai-formatted drive. Works well. I've already dropped in all the stuff from the old Deskstar and obviated the need for this noisy klunker.

I'd like to retrofit in a cold-pluggable interface into the removable connector in the front, right where the hard drive bay is located. Not sure what the original intention for this hole is, but it seems to be a good match to retro-fit in the removable bay.

Has anyone retrofitted a cold-swap drive bay into the MPC 4000 before? Are there any tips or tricks to accomplish this? I'd prefer to avoid hacking together some poorly rigged removable drive bay; curious if there is a cheap aftermarket solution.

Thanks.

Self-help time. I found this one on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-2-5-Inch-Removable-Expansion-S25SLOTR/dp/B002MWDRD6

I do realize it's meant for a PC expansion slot. However the form factor seems appropriate, and I might be able to just hack off the ends. It looks like the front plate on the MPC 4000 is a standard 3.5" size so if I can find the exact hot swap bay, that would be most ideal. Still looking around.

hi4k wrote:

hi4k wrote:I am using an Intel 320 SSD which has a typical SATA connector that fits into the Kingwin adaptor.

On a side note, my Intel 320 came with a very nice SATA -> USB cable which plugs right into my computer. This is *super* fast for dropping large sound sets on to the Akai-formatted drive. Works well. I've already dropped in all the stuff from the old Deskstar and obviated the need for this noisy klunker.

I'd like to retrofit in a cold-pluggable interface into the removable connector in the front, right where the hard drive bay is located. Not sure what the original intention for this hole is, but it seems to be a good match to retro-fit in the removable bay.

Has anyone retrofitted a cold-swap drive bay into the MPC 4000 before? Are there any tips or tricks to accomplish this? I'd prefer to avoid hacking together some poorly rigged removable drive bay; curious if there is a cheap aftermarket solution.

Thanks.

Self-help time. I found this one on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-2-5-Inch-Removable-Expansion-S25SLOTR/dp/B002MWDRD6

I do realize it's meant for a PC expansion slot. However the form factor seems appropriate, and I might be able to just hack off the ends. It looks like the front plate on the MPC 4000 is a standard 3.5" size so if I can find the exact hot swap bay, that would be most ideal. Still looking around.

This one looks *very* close. Just need mounting bracket. This should fit right into the 1" x 4" opening, just need a mounting solution:

http://www.amazon.com/Syba-2-5-Inch-3-5-Inch-Adapter-CL-MRA25019/dp/B0047O2ALM/

edit: I think this, or a similar solution from Startech (http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-2-5-Inch-3-5-Inch-Converter-25SATSAS35/dp/B00612XNSW), should work. I can re-appropriate the 2.5" -> 3.5" metal bracket by busting off the 2.5" mounting tabs, and simply slip this 3.5" external enclosure right in. Should fit like a glove.. hopefully. Actually, on second note, it probably won't as the outside dimensions of my bracket are 4", not the inside dims. Just having the Startech or Syba solution sit on the Akai stock bracket might work, as long as the enclosure has mounting holes on the bottom.

Again if anyone has done this, please do advise. Thanks.