I know 1.4 is 64 bit but will it be multicore?

cpm31 wrote:my english are not very good and i know sh@t about computers.so i'm asking to make it clear, if 1.4 is 64 bit but no multicore how much better (how much more power) the software will run, how much power will use from my 16 giga ram?

p.s. my pc is 4 core i-5 16ram 3.30ghz

You will be able to load and play a lot more samples but your plugins count will be about the same.

cpm31 wrote:my english are not very good and i know sh@t about computers.so i'm asking to make it clear, if 1.4 is 64 bit but no multicore how much better (how much more power) the software will run, how much power will use from my 16 giga ram?

p.s. my pc is 4 core i-5 16ram 3.30ghz

You will be able to use all of the 16GB spread over your samples loaded in the Ren 64 bit software and whatever 64 bit plugins you have and their RAM requirements. Minus between about 1-2GB the OS/Running Apps and OS services will use.

But if there is no multi core, and your CPU meter is getting maxed now, it will still be about the same.

Still even with only 64 bit and no multi core, you could take Kontakt 64 bit for example and load it with 12-14 GB of sounds.

So sample based plugins/libraries will benefit the most from only 64 bit Memory addressing support. But the multi core allows all CPU cores to be used by your host app and plugins.

When Maschine and Ren are finally 64 bit + Multicore, we will all see 100-800% increases in available CPU power as our dual, quad,hex and octo cores are currently being used at 1/2, 1/4/ 1/6 and 1/8th their potential power.

I'm waiting for Akai or NI to be the first one to do it, because in Maschine's case we've been waiting 2+ years. (Multi core was in one Maschine beta, and then dumped in the final... ) So once one firm does multi core the other will have no choice but to get on it.

I'm sure those two applications and most others will be 64 bit/multi core by this time next year and we'll really be able to start using our computers to the fullest.

Metatron72 wrote:

cpm31 wrote:my english are not very good and i know sh@t about computers.so i'm asking to make it clear, if 1.4 is 64 bit but no multicore how much better (how much more power) the software will run, how much power will use from my 16 giga ram?

p.s. my pc is 4 core i-5 16ram 3.30ghz

You will be able to use all of the 16GB spread over your samples loaded in the Ren 64 bit software and whatever 64 bit plugins you have and their RAM requirements. Minus between about 1-2GB the OS/Running Apps and OS services will use.

But if there is no multi core, and your CPU meter is getting maxed now, it will still be about the same.

Still even with only 64 bit and no multi core, you could take Kontakt 64 bit for example and load it with 12-14 GB of sounds.

So sample based plugins/libraries will benefit the most from only 64 bit Memory addressing support. But the multi core allows all CPU cores to be used by your host app and plugins.

When Maschine and Ren are finally 64 bit + Multicore, we will all see 100-800% increases in available CPU power as our dual, quad,hex and octo cores are currently being used at 1/2, 1/4/ 1/6 and 1/8th their potential power.

I'm waiting for Akai or NI to be the first one to do it, because in Maschine's case we've been waiting 2+ years. (Multi core was in one Maschine beta, and then dumped in the final... ) So once one firm does multi core the other will have no choice but to get on it.

I'm sure those two applications and most others will be 64 bit/multi core by this time next year and we'll really be able to start using our computers to the fullest.

thats a really dope answer!!!! thank you, i finally got the point.

i don't care about ni, i am like mpc or nothing when it comes to buying a hardware for sampling.the hope of a stable ren is still alive then even with just 1.4 64 bits no multicore. let's hope this happens and soon, before i go for vacation cause i want to buy a ren, but not before i am sure that it will not give me many frustrations.

p.s. Airyck thank you too as well.

NI just got brought up because multi core support is something a few companies hold back on. In this case, say Maschine has multi core next month, Akai would accelerate when they do it, or the opposite if Akai does it first.

Just looking at the business landscape of what might make a company address users requests faster.

Abelton is multi core, glad my push just showed up today after waiting 8 weeks.

I sure hope Akai brings multi core processing. Because what I am trying to do with the Ren isn't feasible now.

And when I made that last statement in this thread. About having all these instances of certain plugins. I just loaded all of them without playing em. Then I started trying to play 6 tracks of plugins. And effects to boot. It was crash city. Guess I shouldn't rite checks my ass can't cash. But the knowledge I gain here is impressive. Thanks

Ren will be blowing off Cadillacs doors if they go multi core . Oh man I hope so, the combo of Ren and Push is my little dream.

Push? Very nice.

Yeah man the whole DAW world is so close to "the future is now" once everybody gets 64 bit compliant and enables multi core/multi thread support.

It's night and day if I run plugins in Maschine as opposed to Ableton or FL or another multi core enabled host. What is 40-60% ASIO/Core audio (I dual boot a Mac) in Maschine is like 11% tops in the multi core hosts.

That's why I was surprised they didn't let you run multiple instance of Ren/Studio and just target the controller at whatever instance you want to use ATM. It has no faders so you don't even need to worry about having any controls in pickup mode so you don't immediately spoil your settings by accident when jumping from instance to instance.

With Maschine a lot of us load it in Ableton, then each new instance at least gets it's own core as Ableton is directing the CPU show. So Live will use like two cores mainly for itself (but also likely run threads on at least half your cores, but mainly rock the two). Then each Machine (or any multi instance plug in) will get it's own core until you run out. (Then it tries to take whatever plugins are loaded after that and share whatever power is left on the in use cores).

Of course I'd rather just load one Maschine and be able to just load it high heaven. I don't have a Ren, but this 64 bit multi core stuff is OS platform and software agnostic, it's universally how it works, so maybe these posts help clarify why multi core/multi threading is the crack rock everybody needs in their life

And like I said on NI/Akai, whicehver one does multi core first will force the hand of the other, so at some point everybody wind.

JAH wrote:

IMAKEMADBEATS wrote:I'd guess if it were multi-core, they'd broadcast that. So I don't think it will be.

They would certainly highlight this feature if/when this function is available in the MPC software.

My question is: Why would it not be multicore, they spent all this time making it 64bit and no multicore? Sounds like an ancient approach to soft dev...

e9000k wrote:

JAH wrote:

IMAKEMADBEATS wrote:I'd guess if it were multi-core, they'd broadcast that. So I don't think it will be.

They would certainly highlight this feature if/when this function is available in the MPC software.

My question is: Why would it not be multicore, they spent all this time making it 64bit and no multicore? Sounds like an ancient approach to soft dev...

Yeah at this point software vendors who would code 64 bit and not concurrently code multi core/multi thread support seems crazy. NI has made Maschine users wait over 2 years at this point. They even coded it in a beta I took part in, worked great for me. Final dropped multi core support vanished, they said it didn't work for many people. It was a head scratcher to me as I had it working fine on an off the shelf HP quad i7 laptop.

So that's why I mentioned earlier I wish one or the other company would just add it already or at least give a time table as it's the difference between not being able to utilize 50-80% of your computers power. That's kind of a big deal in 2013.

I do agree with Jerome, they would have made a point to highlight multi core if it is going to be in 1.4. And again I bet if they wait a year to do it so will NI.

Obviously coding the software to support multi cores is not an easy task. Otherwise Maschine (which has been on the market approx 5 yrs) would have it already if it were. My personal opinion is that there are higher priorities than multicore support for the Ren. Bug fixes, increased stability, and implementation of some features that improve workflow are more important.

After 64 bit in 1.4, I would like to see multicore support by 1.7 or 1.8.

JAH wrote:Obviously coding the software to support multi cores is not an easy task. Otherwise Maschine (which has been on the market approx 5 yrs)

Maschine has been on market for 4 years not 5. It has been 64 bit for just over two years. This does not mean it's difficult at all to code multi thread. The tech is almost a decade old.

There is no real explanation as to why NI won't add it, someday is the best answer you'll get.

FL Studio, Sonar, Logic, Ableton, Reaper, Cubase and now Pro Tools all support multi core/multi threaded operations as hosts, and over 90% of all plugins that have 64 bit versions multi thread. So no it's not difficult.

There is zero reason two major firms would not make this a concurrent priority to anything else they are doing. Not being able to use 50-80% of your CPU power is as big an issue as anything else a piece of software needs addressed.

I said approx 5 yrs ....it doesn't matter if it is 4 or 5. Also note that it has been in development likely 1-2 yrs before it was released. The same comments apply. Native Instruments is a software company....Akai isn't known for software. I believe all the products you mentioned have been around much longer...some over a decade.

You may not get an official explanation why these products don't support multiple cores. But if it were easy....I don't believe they would hold out on end users especially since it is old tech as you pointed out. Unless you believe NI and Akai are in collusion to short change us.

Pro Tools is still not 64 bit and it has been on the market as long as all the DAWs mentioned.

why do we buy multicore Mac's and PC's when the apps that we use are not multicore?

Hosting the MPC plugin in a multicore daw will make the plugin multicore?

e9000k wrote:why do we buy multicore Mac's and PC's when the apps that we use are not multicore?

Hosting the MPC plugin in a multicore daw will make the plugin multicore?

I created my original dual processor (and later) Multi-Core systems to support apps that actually do support Multi-Core processing. For instance, Cakewalk's flagship DAW has had this capability for several years now; as well as 64bit processing.

JAH wrote:I said approx 5 yrs ....it doesn't matter if it is 4 or 5. Also note that it has been in development likely 1-2 yrs before it was released. The same comments apply. Native Instruments is a software company....Akai isn't known for software. I believe all the products you mentioned have been around much longer...some over a decade.

You may not get an official explanation why these products don't support multiple cores. But if it were easy....I don't believe they would hold out on end users especially since it is old tech as you pointed out. Unless you believe NI and Akai are in collusion to short change us.

Pro Tools is still not 64 bit and it has been on the market as long as all the DAWs mentioned.

No not collusion.

Just as this and other industries go sometimes I'm just pointing out that whichever firm does it first NI or Akai, it will make the other accelerate adding the support. That's all. Like how Ableton didn't talk serious about 64 bit until Bitwig was announced. Once the Bitwig beta showed up, 64 bit Ableton happened real fast.

I don't think it's a matter of difficulty as much as time needed as you have to recompile the whole code base, although not totally re-write it. And I'm not arguing your points about the difficulty to do the multi core concurrent to the other coding work being done. But I would hate to see it keep getting pushed on the back burner for you guys as has happened with Maschine.

For the record multi core support and multi threaded is not a 64 bit only thing. The majority of 32 bit apps do it and have for a long time. (32 bit Ableton using Rewire will for example put Live on one core and Reason on another. Then the next six plugins I load will each get one of my remaining 6 cores, and there's the 8 virtual ones too.)

It just is more noticeable when it's absent in 64 bit apps because you could have 20GB in Kontakt, no issue, but add a couple heavy FX at 128 buffer or lower and the CPU is pounded. Even at higher buffers it's still your CPU at 1/2, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8th it's potential.

So 64 bit but no multi core almost feels like you got a bazooka in one hand and a butter knife in the other at times.

So I'm just saying it's such a huge thing to really use the power most us have on these newer computers. Of course we can still make tracks under some of these limitations, but it's gonna be great to see both products finally add multi core and we can have 8+ CPU heavy plugs going.

Anyway sorry I was mistaken on PT 64 bit, but no matter, as I said 32 bit can multi thread ansd have multi core support which 32 bit PT does already.

So Maschine and Ren/Studio are the two highest visibility products that lack multi core support. It's basically in just about everything else out there. So I just hope both companies join the party soon.

Metatron72 wrote:So 64 bit but no multi core almost feels like you got a bazooka in one hand and a butter knife in the other at times.

Especially when you're watching your application spike the h3!! out of one core while the others are left practically asleep! Pretty much makes you go bad coding!