Technical questions for the MPC2000xl and the MPC2000
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By talll13 Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:20 am
I saw a video on the web, where someone was doing sampling tests, and he was using a technique called "45 rpm, + 6.7% pitch trick". Does anyone knows the meaning of this? I guess it is a pitch up technique to sample, but what should be the tuning down on 2k? Btw sounds great!!
Thank you in advance
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By Star One Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:04 am
Sampling at higher speeds (45 rpm etc) properly

Put the turntable on 45 rpm, and using the guitar tuner, go up and down the pitch control (technics 1200) finding the highest speed that gives a *solid semitone* meaning the guitar tuner should be holding still on semitone X, X#, etc. It should not be teetering between two half steps, for example, going back and forth hunting between F and F# (a little sharp or a little flat). You don't want to take a sample and have your sample inbetween two half steps, because then you have to deal with fine tuning, etc. Waste of time.

On a technics 1200 turntable that *has a pitch control in GOOD CONDITION*, you will find that about +4.5% on 45rpm will give you the highest speed on 45 rpm that still falls onto a solid semitone. This translates to a F# (remember, 0% 33 rpm was middle C). F# is 6 semitones up from C.

So if I sample a record (considering the original players had their instruments all tuned), I know that I can sample in at 45 rpm +4.5% and pitch it back down 6 semitones (-6) and be right back in tune with the original record.

When I add synths, keys, or play live bass to my sampled beats, I never have to bother using fine pitch adjustment.

Keep in mind this works on MY 1200's. My 1200's are matched to each other so when I rock doubles, I KNOW that 7% on one table is 7% on the another table. I haven't done it with my Vestax tables. I recommend everyone use a tuner and see what works with THEIR turntables. If you have dirty turntables, or if your pitch controls are not calibrated properly, my values will NOT work for you.

Find a strobe tuner, like a Peterson, if possible. Most accurate IMO.

Somebody will probably say "wtf is this guy talking about" but anyone who has tuned an instrument knows what I am talking about when I say a a tune can be sitting in between two semitones (out of tune, a bit sharp or flat).


Hope this might help :) It's originally written about the SP-1200, but it goes for any older sampler with not so much memory.

Edit: Here's the source for anyone interested, or yourself, in full.

http://sp1200.myfastforum.org/index.php?component=content&topicid=924
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By Star One Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:38 am
talll13 wrote:thank you!


Absolutely!

Welcome to the Forum! I'm not affiliated, just a poster, but welcomes are in order :)

Lots of helpful folks here.

The thing with increasing the speed when sampling in, is because when you have limited sampling time, you can squeeze more in. Say you get 2 seconds in at 33 1/2RPM, but you have a 3 or 4 second bit you want. You speed it up, and then slow it back down to the normal pitch, and got your 4 seconds!

That's also the point of the trick, to get that pitch properly.
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By talll13 Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:52 am
Yeah i m aware of this, but i want to do some tests because there is a sound difference too. At the test i saw & heard, there was a huge difference in sampling tuned up and tune zero, especially in HFreq, which is the huge disadvantage in vinyl drum breaks samples. I suppose that speeding up a record, produces more HFreq than the standart play. If you capture that equalization and tune it down, maybe you ll get richest HFreq sample. Thats just theory. But i remember back in the dayz when i using the box (pc), that i was pitching down loops to cut lowfreq more efficient, and tune them back.
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By marrelarre Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:58 pm
Im quite sure that 45rpm +8% sampling requires -66 in the MPC to go back to original Pitch.

That SP trick is ment for the SP1200 which only pitches in semitones (no fine tune) = -7(0) is the closest to -66. sampling at 45+4.5% is the highest speed that leaves you a pure tone that can be found on the keyboard.

So you having a MPC should sample (if you want to use this trick to save memory) id suggest sampling at 45rpm+8% (highest there is on standard turntables) and pitching back -66 in the MPC to its original pitch. Then if you want to pitch always step up/down 10 steps to stay tuned to a keyboard.

Considering MPC has fine tune there is no point in not going as fast as possible when sampling. Does this make sense?



I always use the speed up trick considering i use a SP1200 and want to have as much memory as possible, and it does have a clear effect on the sound, but thats because the pitch algorythm of the SP isnt perfect. The easiest way is just sampling the same sample twice, once 33rpm and once 45rpm+8%.
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By peterpiper Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:49 pm
If you're on a sampler that has finetuning (in opposite of the SPs full semitone tune) and you want to stay in tune. I recommend to simply put the turntable to the fixed 45rpm or, if the turntable provides it 78rpm.
Reason is that you really won't be able to set the pitch to an exact value that gives you a perfect tuned sample (sure the guitar tuner and a record with a looooong sinewave on it will help you here but IMO thats too much hassle).

If you sample a 33 1/3 record on 45 you'll have to pitch it down 5.2 semitones to play at the original tune.

If the exact tuning is not that important you can also stop the motor and turn the platter with the hand very fast to get an even more "lofiish" sound.

Depending on the rec gain, the sample rate and the converter in the sampler you'll get different results.
The reason is that you shift the frequency spectrum of the signal upwards by speeding up the platter.
The high end of the signal gets more and more out of the frequency-range that the converters of the sampler can handle and it will cause artifacs (aliasing) that will be hearable when you tune it down to the original (or lower) tune inside the sampler.
Thats why the high end of this sample can sound kind of reduced (not as polished as before) but more present in some high frequencies at the same time.

peace