Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

Support and discussion for all of Akai’s modern standalone MPCs including the MPC X / X SE, MPC Live 1, 2 & 3, MPC One / One+, MPC Key 37/61.
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By Unreallystic Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:30 pm
I like the previous idea of leaving the MPC like they are - more instrument, and letting the Force function as a DAW substitute.

With that said, if they can do it with minimal bugs, then I would still love it on my Live. My "personal" issues with the Live are tied to breaking out of defacto loops, pads that spread loops being a prime example, especially during build ups - yes I absolutely can do it without a real issue, but it feels like a convoluted method compared to say FL Studios where I can just have a lane for that buildup to run parallel with my other loops.
- Unreall
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By Bezo Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:03 pm
40Beatz wrote:Thats why Akai should Concentrate on keeping the MPC an Instrument with No Bugs. And Take the Force to the DAW Like ends of the Earth. Just my Opinion :)

Imagine Tethering the MPC and Force together....On The Stage in a Performance OR In the Studio!
Produce the Tracks/Clips on the MPC, and flawlessly/simultaneously Recording/Arranging on the Force.

Complete DAW Team :nod:

Less Bugs and Hiccups.

This doesn't address the antiquated nature of the MPC though.

The average DAW's workflow is just more efficient. I get that some have developed the muscle memory to combat this to some degree, but the steps needed to do some very basic things on the MPC is ridiculous.

Maybe if folks thought of these modernizations as simple improvements instead of DAW features, they'd be embraced by the old guard. No one sees this arranger and thinks the song mode is better. Who wouldn't want this on their MPC?
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By Monotremata Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:03 pm
Bezo wrote:If there in fact is no room, replace the song mode with this.

I know some MPC heads don't want any DAW-like features to infiltrate, but the antiquated workflow is holding the MPCs back. They are littered with inefficiencies. Song mode, basic editing (copy, paste, duplicate), MIDI import, solo & mute, sample editing, etc.


Thats probably not going to happen. Akai would risk alienating most of the MPC community to begin with that are set using Song Mode as it is. Folks move to the MPC because they like the MPC, if they're forced to go back to a DAW type environment, they'll just go back to their DAW where things are alot easier, get updated and improved fairly regularly, and dont require a bunch of extra gear to make things happen.. Theres alot of younger folks that are screaming for this, but quite a few 'legacy' users that want the MPC to stay the way they've been using it for 30+ years.

Dan already said its going to be optional, but whether this has changed (or Dan is even still there) is a mystery to everyone until it drops.

Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By 40Beatz Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:07 pm
zangetsu01 wrote:
I don't see any reason to stand on stage with a Force + an X if they could implement all these features in the MPC environment. Old MPC heads just shouldn't enter those modes and keep doing what they've always done.

I would really like to see the new mixer and aranger mode added to the MPC. This will indeed push the MPC forward.


You must haven't experienced the Bugs in the Current models :lol:

The way Akai Throw New Features in the Current models without Fully testing them, I would NOT Trust all the features i need packed into one unit, on a Stage, performing.

Your Logic is basically like Sayin... Young Heads shouldn't ask for New Features in New Units. "Dont Ask for New Modes" :lol: "Keep Doin What You Youngns Been Doing"...

Sound Bad Dont It :lol:

Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By Eyalc Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:12 pm
I think having this style arranger would be nice on an MPC. But there’s so many questions and doubts. First I don’t think Akai has the developer talent to pull it off. They’ve proven SO many times that their ideas and implementations are half-baked at best. Just sayin’.

Second, to replace MPC-style arrangement (song mode) with DAW-style arrangement would mean changing an underlying architecture that is probably 20 years old (or more). The Song concept would go away, the Sequence concept would go away (at least I believe it would). Doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s deep foundational stuff that needs to change, and it’s already shown to be fragile (2.8.1).

Unless of course the arranger view would just be a visualization that sits on top of it all, and allows you to interact with it, edit midi, etc (refer back to my “half-baked” point). I could see this if it’s an option like was discussed a while ago. But I can’t see how they would get rid of song mode though. It’s old, and it’s outdated. But it’s at the core of the MPC.

Either way, it’s a huge undertaking. If they half-bake the design, it ain’t gonna be pretty. Would be very cool to see it happen though.

Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By 40Beatz Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:14 pm
EnochLight wrote:
I fail to see how this would take up any more real estate than it does on the Force - they have the exact same screen. :hmmm: They have the exact same CPU and RAM. The built-in storage where the firmware is kept obviously varies between the One and the Live/X, but that's insignificant.


I wasn't Talkin about Screen Space. More or Less Restructuring/Adding A New Mode. The Force already had a Similar Linear Workflow. Which made The Arranger Mode Easier to Implement.

Not saying Arranger Mode in the MPC Impossible or worthy!
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By zangetsu01 Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:21 pm
40Beatz wrote:
zangetsu01 wrote:
I don't see any reason to stand on stage with a Force + an X if they could implement all these features in the MPC environment. Old MPC heads just shouldn't enter those modes and keep doing what they've always done.

I would really like to see the new mixer and aranger mode added to the MPC. This will indeed push the MPC forward.


You must haven't experienced the Bugs in the Current models :lol:

The way Akai Throw New Features in the Current models without Fully testing them, I would NOT Trust all the features i need packed into one unit, on a Stage, performing.

Your Logic is basically like Sayin... Young Heads shouldn't ask for New Features in New Units. "Dont Ask for New Modes" :lol: "Keep Doin What You Youngns Been Doing"...

Sound Bad Dont It :lol:


Please stop flipping my words into things I've never said..
Seems to me that you've failed to understand what I've been trying to say..

Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By 40Beatz Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:36 pm
I didnt Write "Old MPC heads just shouldn't enter those modes and keep doing what they've always done." :lol: :lol:
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By zangetsu01 Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:56 pm
40Beatz wrote:I didnt Write "Old MPC heads just shouldn't enter those modes and keep doing what they've always done." :lol: :lol:


I'll just drop this discussion and get back on topic from here on out.. Because it feels like you're trying to start something while there's nothing there..

Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By Tabletop Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:06 pm
EnochLight wrote:
40Beatz wrote:I think it would take up too much Real Estate. They would have to remove some key features from the Live/X. Not to mention create Bugs and Sh*t tryin to Squeeze this in the Live/X


I fail to see how this would take up any more real estate than it does on the Force - they have the exact same screen. :hmmm: They have the exact same CPU and RAM. The built-in storage where the firmware is kept obviously varies between the One and the Live/X, but that's insignificant.

They wouldn't have to remove any features - why would you think they'd have to remove any?


Hopefully it will fit!!
...Maybe now all users will agree that more RAM/CPU is a good thing!! :lol:
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By EnochLight Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:10 pm
Eyalc wrote:I think having this style arranger would be nice on an MPC. But there’s so many questions and doubts. First I don’t think Akai has the developer talent to pull it off. They’ve proven SO many times that their ideas and implementations are half-baked at best. Just sayin’.

Second, to replace MPC-style arrangement (song mode) with DAW-style arrangement would mean changing an underlying architecture that is probably 20 years old (or more). The Song concept would go away, the Sequence concept would go away (at least I believe it would). Doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s deep foundational stuff that needs to change, and it’s already shown to be fragile (2.8.1).

Unless of course the arranger view would just be a visualization that sits on top of it all, and allows you to interact with it, edit midi, etc (refer back to my “half-baked” point). I could see this if it’s an option like was discussed a while ago. But I can’t see how they would get rid of song mode though. It’s old, and it’s outdated. But it’s at the core of the MPC.

Either way, it’s a huge undertaking. If they half-bake the design, it ain’t gonna be pretty. Would be very cool to see it happen though.


Yikes - that comment was harsh about the dev talent. :lol: Anyway, on the MPC, they already have an ALMOST arranger-type view for every track per sequence for MIDI data at least, albeit one at a time - it's the Grid Mode. They could expound on that and have it translated into an actual linear Arranger mode, IMHO.

The way it's done now is truly archaic - it isn't 20 years old - it's 32 years old. That Grid Mode is the one thing that bridges the current gen MPC's song building into the modern realm, IMHO.
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By Bezo Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:10 pm
Monotremata wrote:
Bezo wrote:If there in fact is no room, replace the song mode with this.

I know some MPC heads don't want any DAW-like features to infiltrate, but the antiquated workflow is holding the MPCs back. They are littered with inefficiencies. Song mode, basic editing (copy, paste, duplicate), MIDI import, solo & mute, sample editing, etc.


Thats probably not going to happen. Akai would risk alienating most of the MPC community to begin with that are set using Song Mode as it is. Folks move to the MPC because they like the MPC, if they're forced to go back to a DAW type environment, they'll just go back to their DAW where things are alot easier, get updated and improved fairly regularly, and dont require a bunch of extra gear to make things happen.. Theres alot of younger folks that are screaming for this, but quite a few 'legacy' users that want the MPC to stay the way they've been using it for 30+ years.

Dan already said its going to be optional, but whether this has changed (or Dan is even still there) is a mystery to everyone until it drops.

I've never seen anyone praise song mode except the few ways it's better than Maschine's. I haven't seen anyone say they like it more than what's been previewed in the new arranger. It's one of those thing folks use because it's there. Those that are used to it will try out the new arranger as soon as they see how much more efficient it is. Some will be more resistant, but most everyone will jump on the more efficient workflow. Muscle memory is cool, but 8 steps are not better than 4.

But I don't see the arranger as a DAW environment any more than song mode. Song mode is laid out the same way, just less efficient.

Now...


Eyalc wrote:...Second, to replace MPC-style arrangement (song mode) with DAW-style arrangement would mean changing an underlying architecture that is probably 20 years old (or more). The Song concept would go away, the Sequence concept would go away (at least I believe it would). Doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s deep foundational stuff that needs to change, and it’s already shown to be fragile (2.8.1)...

...If the arranger can't coexist with sequences, that would be an issue. My assumption is that sequences will be able to turn into an arrangement, similar to how they work with song mode. I wouldn't use the arranger if this wasn't the case. Though they also could use some updating, sequences are one of my favorite things about the MPC.
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Re: Force's new Arranger is here - MPC user thoughts?

By Lampdog Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:37 pm
EnochLight wrote: That Grid Mode is the one thing that bridges the current gen MPC's song building into the modern realm, IMHO.


And it was SORELY needed and I’m glad it’s here!
I like having seq’s on main screen, it feels like an mpc of old with new visuals.

I don’t want my mpc to be daw like, I want it to be an mpc. Arranger, I could get used to it though.
I could always use an older os if I choose.
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