MPC-60 vs SP1200

elmacaco wrote:
And Itchy, I think you just know the XL very well, the 60 interface kills the xl without even noticing it did anything, like squashing a bug.

El, you may be right on that. But also, some types of interfaces click with certain people, and some don't.
In any case, I still find it hard to go backwards on stuff like visual waveform editing, .wav compatabilty, folder creation on zip, zone chopping, etc. Those things make life easy for me, and call me lazy, but I like easy.

If course, different equipment meshes with different people, but zoning, wavform editing, etc. is not an interface issue, that's a feature issue, and again, what you're used to, and what you frequently use. They are like 10 year apart. Give the 60 more time, the benefits are subtle. Not sayin it'll dust the 2000 for you.

I am really interested in what you have to say over time, not many people have the XL, 60, and SP-1200, each can get pretty deep.

itchyvinyl wrote:If you are only gonna have one machine, an upgraded 60 is a better choice (on paper.)
If you already have a 2000, 3000, 4000, 1000 or 2000XL, then the SP might be a better second machine.

Word. I do make beats on just the SP, but I always know I have the 2000xl around for longer samples, plus I use the xl to control my midi modules. If I could only have one machine I don't think I'd go for the SP... Although it's still very tempting...

itchyvinyl wrote:If you want the 12-bit grit sound, the SP wins HANDS DOWN. The 12-bit sound of the 60 is subtle. The 12-bit grit of the SP is ANYTHING BUT subtle. It's nasty, filthy, grainy, and grimey...especially if you do the sampling at 45 trick. Also, the SP has filters, good ones. The 60 has NO filters. Something to consider.

Word. The 45 trick is quite subtle on most samplers, but on the SP it's anything but. It's a crazy effect that makes the original sample almost unrecognizable. The SP sound is dope, but it's not for everyone, and it's often not for every sound in the mix. If you can join it up with some 16bit (or cleaner 12bit), your mixes will often sound more dynamic.

itchyvinyl wrote:No sample reversing on the SP.

Uhm. Dude. Check the 'special' menu. It's right there.

Yep,

Like itchy said, if you've got NO sampler/drumachine, den run for the XL
>>> features & sound are greats.

If you're looking for a tru 12 bit sampler, look at a Emax (with HD&SCSI), or an S950...

SP1200 is the sh** babe! I like mine to death...
There's a program that allow you to control your SP via your XL...
SP is soooo easy to rock with, it tooks me an afternoon to learn it!

Yes you can reverse samples, one sound can cut another, you can have up to 32 sounds in it...
The 45T recording trick is all good, also you can sample from a Digital device and use a similar trick... so that you'll get a CLEAR 12 bit sound!

What's make a lot of cats looking for the SP12/1200 is the analog filter. You have to know that it's a preset filter, also you can disable the filter on any output... but BEWARE most cats selling their SP cuz the filter's CHIP is OUT. And you can't find this SSM2044 nomore those days...

www.emulatorarchive.com

Enjoy.

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate all your help.

The simplicity of the SP1200 that everyone talks about is tempting. I've been going through older posts here and I read that one of the methods to "beef up" (I hope mpc3000 won't call me racist for that one ) your drums is to layer them. If SP1200 can't play 2 or more sounds simultaneously, does it mean that you can't layer your drums with it?

Oh, I'm glad the SP can reverse a sample. If I had the S950 controlled by the SP, would it allow me to play samples simultaneously (since the Akai sampler is polyphonic)? Or would it be impossible because the SP is monophonic?

Nah... SP is Polyphonic dude... chèk the link, great infos, tips and so there...
You can play 8 sounds in a raw, you've got 8 outputs juss like MPCs...

AFA SP mastered your rackmount sampler,...hum,...pads are just little "hard">>> really different feel than any MPC... but if you practice the mutipitch/multilevel part, it's all good... also depending of your compo.

Sorry to ask, how much are you able to put on an SP?

lo-fi wrote:

itchyvinyl wrote:

itchyvinyl wrote:No sample reversing on the SP.

Uhm. Dude. Check the 'special' menu. It's right there.

Oops, sorry on that one. I've never used that feature on the SP, and right now it's sitting in the flight case. Like I said, I hardly use it anymore.

Yes, the SP as a machine is polyphonic.....but each sample pad is monophonic. Each time you trigger any one sample, it will cut itself off.

You can layer on the SP, but not automatically like the MPC's SIMULT function. You would have to manually sequence in the layered sample....and you'd have to route each sound in the layers to different outputs (only one sound can play from each output at any one time.)

Elmacaco, I understand that I'm stuck on features....but also, the interface of the XL is easier to navigate through screens and different modes for me.
It's like the way it's set up on the XL is the way it's set up in my mind.
But, you're probably right, it's because I'm used to it.
I'll keep giving the 60 a chance. I want to learn it so that I can hop on someone's 60 or 3000 in case I ever need to.
I'll keep you posted on my progress and my findings about the differences in those three machines.
Cheers, nice discussion.

I've had my 60 for about 4 years and I'm still learning stuff on it.

Many of the features are present on the XL, but because you have other flashy features, few people really explore the possibilities.

One thing I love on my 60 and use all the time are the footswitch inputs, it helps when you are using a midi controler, and also when you are playing a beat and don't want to stop to press overdub.

I figured out a way to layer drums on the SP.

Lets take the snare pattern for example. Program it, and record into your multitrack (hardware or software) recorder. Protools, Cubase, Cool Edit, DPS, whatever.

Now, load another sample in the SP on that pad/bank but keep the sequence unchanged. A second snare, for this example.

Record this second indentical pattern with different snare onto your multitracker. Assuming its MIDI synced, it should line up perfectly with your first snare pattern.

VOILA! Layered snare. and the benefit is that you can EQ and compress each one separately, plus adjust the volumes and decay of each individually.

Try it, it sounds dope.

It would be cool if the SP had the combine funtion the Emax has, where you can mix two samples into one sample, either replacing one or creating a new sample.

If the SP had all the emax stuff in it I would sweat it so hard, but the limited filters on it make me not want to spend the cash on one.

But shit, if I came across one for cheap I would get it just to edit with 8 sliders!!

elmacaco wrote:
But ****, if I came across one for cheap I would get it just to edit with 8 sliders!!

You just touched on something that nobody talks about regarding the SP -sample editing. Yes, you trim the sample using the first four faders, which is different, and actually fast. But.....

On the MPC, you can trim the sample exactly where you want it to be cut. You have a very fine control when moving the start/end points.
However, on the SP, when you move the fader (even the "fine" control fader) the trim point moves in big jumps. It's like the fader is notched, and when you move it, it goes to the next notch, and the trim point makes a farily big jump. So, sometimes when trimming a drum for example, you can't trim it EXACTLY to the beginning of the sound. You might have a choice between the two closest notches - one that's before the sample start and one that is cut into the beginning of the sample. Does that make sense? It's hard to explain unless you are using the machine.

The interesting thing about that is.....many of your samples on the SP come out trimmed a little funky. Like you hacked it off with an axe instead of using a scalpel. This MAY contribute to the "dirty", "grimey" sound of the SP. The beginnings and ends of samples may have little extra pieces of sound that make it sound more chunky or raw.......and the SP has no envelopes for fading the sample at the ends.

I've never heard anyone talk about it, but that's just my theory. Another limitation that actually can be a blessing in disguise.

I saw this in that Sp-1200 thread someone posted, the emax slider is the same, but it is really a course control, the scalpel is the number buttons, get it rough, then punch in the numbers.

It doesn't take long to get psychic with the numbers,I do the same on my 60, and I actually prefer it to the waveform editing on my 6000. Computer chopping is really quick, but waveform with a data wheel is no where near as good. But again, it takes time to get the vulcan mind meld going.

See, that's the kind of thing that comes with time, you think you know a machine, then you find out that you can just punch in the numbers.

I also like that everything is controlled with the sliders, envelopes, etc. it is like what people wish midi controllers would with their computers, but it is all about loading and making templates and shit.

Another cool thing about the SP is that the quantize setting affect the erase. Like if you record a 16th note pattern and you want to take out every 8th note, you justset the quantize to 8ths and it erases them. The MPC doesn't do this, and I'm glad it doesn't, but it is kinda nifty the thought they put into these machines. All subsequent samplers kinda milk the thinking that went in to the classics and then kinda kludge everything else in.

That's why I hate open window, who wants to scroll to a parameter then hit a button, then scroll to a value to change it? That's a deep menu, and sure you get used to it, but it has little regard for the end user.

Dude, Elmacaco droppin science with the number pad.
You're right man....you think you know your lady, and then she surprises you. I wonder how many SP users ain't knowing about that one.

But, when you think about it, using the coarse fader, then using the fine fader, then punching in numbers.......that's way less simple than one data wheel. (to me)

And to think I've never owned an SP!!

Well it's quicker, I always use the data wheel with the numbers on the 60, slider and numbers with the emax. Once you start using numbers, you get a feelfor how much time they represent, without having to think in terms or what each number represents (a sample in most cases) you hear where you are at, and just punch in a number and you are really close, then you just keep going in whatever interval you want.the adjustments jus pop into your head without thinking, you just hear and know.

I really HATE the scrolling to the digit place with arrows and changing it in 100's or1000's like the S6000 has, it's like having as many course/ fine sliders as you have numbers. the outter wheel of the OG 2000 is better than arrows, but still locked into that digit thing. You can of course just use the numbers on any mpc, I don't think it's possible to disable the waveform though.

That with the waveform editing makes it much more complicated, because you make the sound / visual connection, and the sound / math connection gets dusted. I have found that the sound / math perception opens up much more possibilities cuz it makes you think a little and get more intuitive. The waveforms might make it easier with less thought, but then the intuitive side of it is lost as you keep trying to match the sound with visuals.

That's just my experience, and it makes me glad the number pad in the 60 is in the middle of the machine. SO well thought out, that 60.

dam, nice conversation. Good sh*t. Love the insight!

Yo, on my sp12turbo it seems that sound is only coming out of one side, and the cables and other connections are cool. Any suggestions on what this is?
Yo elmacaco, I got 2 more MIDI cables. Its on now.