So who's copping the 1000???

Technical questions for the MPC2000xl and the MPC2000
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Are you getting the MPC1000?

15
24%
29
46%
19
30%
  • Total votes : 63
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By Dr.Foo Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:41 pm
Werd Swiss, I think the 60 will be ok (MAGIC GROOVE! hahahahaha) on all the peeps coppin it for that "vintage" feel, same with the 3k, they got a diff. feel, and these are the peeps who cop them now anyways. BY feel I mean the layout the use of the functions etc.

but yep, I agree, whoever got a 2k is gonna be hurtin when the go to sell it, they go for like 800-1 g fully kitted out now, I bet they will drop to the 500-700 dollar or so range, and still sell since it will slide into the price range of the used SP-808 (like 500-700, for one o dem babies) and da ASR-X MAN -they are gonna get ROCKED, I bet those will drop to like 250-400 or so, and then I might buy one as a second sampler or some ish (hahahah)and all sampler prices will drop for used ones, the 202 will hit 75 bux, the 303 will hit like 200 and stay around there, etc.

Just cuz then, why buy a SP808 when you can get a 2000 for the same price?

so I think (not sure, but I'd bet on it if I was a gamblin' man and I aM! he he) that the 2000 will drop in price but will force all the stuff below it to drop in price too.

man, that is how tight akais grip is on samplers, they drop new gear and all the prices of everything get shaken up.

The 1000 seems better to me...

ByKingOfSwing Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:57 pm
Common guys...no offence...and by no means am i offending any users out there...but the MPC 2000XL doesnt exactly look pretty.

to me all MPC's look like cash tills...and nothing else.

but atleast the MPC 4000 and the new 1000 to be have advanced on this.

quite frankly someone who spends around £800 (ime from UK), dont really want some ugly peace of outdated looking gear.

in the UK none of the music shops really promote the 2000/xl...only the 4000 gets the real show.

in this day if you buy a 2000/xl u really are kiddin ureself...its completely ugly and out of date.

at least with the MPC 1000 it looks better, smaller, more modern lookin, has all the extras (16 mb memory and not a lousy amount of just 2mb), FX, Compact Flash card (32 mb included), Usb (easy sample dumpin), preset sounds, etc.

as for it not having the same components as the 2000/xl, well only time will tell.

ime sure the 1000 wont have the same parts...it may even have improved components (such as better AD converters)...who knows???.

its all gonna swing the same...coz its going to have the same sequencing software as the all the other MPCs...not to even mention a small chance of a cut down version of the sequncer inside the mpc 4000.

Surely Akai have followed the footsteps of the MPC 4000...and not the 2000xl.

most companies dont work backwards...

Also those who claim that the MPC 1000 is more aimed towards a newbie market or a market that cannot afford the 2000/xl...i think you could be wrong.

Akai must have had thier ears burning since their has been an ever increasing trend in the sofware market, like Logic, Cubase, DP, PT, and soft samplers like Exs24, Mach5, Halion, etc.

also akai know very well who use their products the most...and its definately the current hip hop market.

as more and more newbie users come into the scene they look at two routes...1) Software and 2) Hardware,

akai have realised this...and they know too well that lots and lots of young ambitious producers / beat makers want mpcs but dont bother coz they can go the software route and perhaps do same thing as the mpc.

but...akai also know that alot of software users aint too keen on creating drums on computers partly becoz it tires them out looking at the screen, doesnt give users the results they want, no pucniness to the drums, and crippled software related timing issues (as cpu runs longer and hotter)...i know this as i have gone the software route.

so...akai have answered this problem...

welcome the mpc 1000.
User avatar

By JusDaFied Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:08 am
Swing, welcome to the forum and way to jump in with a smart post.

I have to disagree with Foo, and now Swiss when you guys are assuming that there will be lesser components in the 1000 than the 2000xl and that it will be inferior to the 2000xl simply because of the price point. Swing is reiterating exactly what I said before, that Akai wants to sell more. It's basicly marketing.

Microeconomics in a nutshell:

If you can sell 10 units at $10 ($1000)

or 1000 units at $5 ($5000), which would you do?

Point is, don't think that the components will be inferior simply because of the cost. In fact, using different main components to the 2000xl would probably end up costing Akai more money.

Now obviously you have to factor in things like R&D costs, marketing and stuff like that into the price, but keep this in mind, the 1000 is really a convergence of new and old technology. A little of 2000xl and a little of the 4000. Looks to me, that if the 1000 is to be successful (and I believe it is), it's the 2000xl market that will suffer.

By cashstill Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:32 am
from the promo pics i saw it looks like a fisher price
kind of toy

this machine must be geared towards teen agers
User avatar

Re: The 1000 seems better to me...

By Swissmaster Cheese Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:41 am
KingOfSwing wrote:Common guys...no offence...and by no means am i offending any users out there...but the MPC 2000XL doesnt exactly look pretty.

to me all MPC's look like cash tills...and nothing else.

but atleast the MPC 4000 and the new 1000 to be have advanced on this.

I understand your point but I mean, think about it-those look like toys compared to a 2kxl...

quite frankly someone who spends around £800 (ime from UK), dont really want some ugly peace of outdated looking gear.

in the UK none of the music shops really promote the 2000/xl...only the 4000 gets the real show.

well, maybe that has something to do with the fact that the mpc has been out for like , what 4-5 years and the 4k for just over a year.....that and the 4k would probably make them alot more capital if enough folks bought 'em...

in this day if you buy a 2000/xl u really are kiddin ureself...its completely ugly and out of date.

its all about bare functionality and ease of use...you'd be kidding yourself in to thinking that you need 4g's worth of gear just to make beats.....

at least with the MPC 1000 it looks better, smaller, more modern lookin, has all the extras (16 mb memory and not a lousy amount of just 2mb), FX, Compact Flash card (32 mb included), Usb (easy sample dumpin), preset sounds, etc.

and so do all the other machines for which its competing against in its market such as those Korg joints and the Roland grooveboxes......this isnt an evolution more like a reimagining of sorts....this'll make that step up to drum sequencing much easier for those just thinking of getting into the game....

as for it not having the same components as the 2000/xl, well only time will tell.

ime sure the 1000 wont have the same parts...it may even have improved components (such as better AD converters)...who knows???.

its all gonna swing the same...coz its going to have the same sequencing software as the all the other MPCs...not to even mention a small chance of a cut down version of the sequncer inside the mpc 4000.

Surely Akai have followed the footsteps of the MPC 4000...and not the 2000xl.

most companies dont work backwards...

That doesnt make sense, I mean, why would digi make the avid systems, the mix stations, then the digi001 and that audio card thingie, then the mbox, then the HD then the 002 then the rack? what most companies realize is that with new tech comes out usually it creates a new underclass that has to be attended to or otherwise they'll move on and never spend money with you......Like the Korg triton to rack to LE...its that way with everything......almost...

.......Also those who claim that the MPC 1000 is more aimed towards a newbie market or a market that cannot afford the 2000/xl...i think you could be wrong.

Akai must have had thier ears burning since their has been an ever increasing trend in the sofware market, like Logic, Cubase, DP, PT, and soft samplers like Exs24, Mach5, Halion, etc.

well, thats what you have the 4k, akaisys. for and the MPD pads.....

also akai know very well who use their products the most...and its definately the current hip hop market.

as more and more newbie users come into the scene they look at two routes...1) Software and 2) Hardware,

akai have realised this...and they know too well that lots and lots of young ambitious producers / beat makers want mpcs but dont bother coz they can go the software route and perhaps do same thing as the mpc.

but...akai also know that alot of software users aint too keen on creating drums on computers partly becoz it tires them out looking at the screen, doesnt give users the results they want, no pucniness to the drums, and crippled software related timing issues (as cpu runs longer and hotter)...i know this as i have gone the software route.

so...akai have answered this problem...

welcome the mpc 1000.
User avatar

By Swissmaster Cheese Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:49 am
JusDaFied wrote:Swing, welcome to the forum and way to jump in with a smart post.

I have to disagree with Foo, and now Swiss when you guys are assuming that there will be lesser components in the 1000 than the 2000xl and that it will be inferior to the 2000xl simply because of the price point. Swing is reiterating exactly what I said before, that Akai wants to sell more. It's basicly marketing.

Microeconomics in a nutshell:

If you can sell 10 units at $10 ($1000)

or 1000 units at $5 ($5000), which would you do?

Point is, don't think that the components will be inferior simply because of the cost. In fact, using different main components to the 2000xl would probably end up costing Akai more money.

Now obviously you have to factor in things like R&D costs, marketing and stuff like that into the price, but keep this in mind, the 1000 is really a convergence of new and old technology. A little of 2000xl and a little of the 4000. Looks to me, that if the 1000 is to be successful (and I believe it is), it's the 2000xl market that will suffer.


I agree with wha you're saying but i never meant to insiunate that the 1000 would be a lesser grade of machine build wise....just that it doesnt seem to me like a full on experience.....like a MPC Lite....
User avatar

By butcher Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:01 am
i agree with swiss

By cashstill Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:42 am
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by : Swissmaster Cheese

also akai know very well who use their products the most...and its definately the current hip hop market.

as more and more newbie users come into the scene they look at two routes...1) Software and 2) Hardware,

akai have realised this...and they know too well that lots and lots of young ambitious producers / beat makers want mpcs but dont bother coz they can go the software route and perhaps do same thing as the mpc.

---------------------------------------------------------------

you right Akai should know their market very well and I bet you any money its the 16 - 33 age bracket (those in their thirties are the first adult generation raised on 80's hip hop)

you said it yourself the "young ambitious producers"

and a lot of times young ambitious producers translates to young broke or not working a stable job yet wanna be producers.

the machine looks popcorn trendy and its screams "over here young buck get mama to buy you this machine for christmas"

any real producer getting into producing Hip Hop & RnB would go with a classic machine like the 2000XL before they fork over a grand for a "baby MP"

the youth buying all the hip hop gear clothing. movie tickets, music cds (less then days of past since downloading) and even music equipment!

speaking of downloading, the explantion for having so many young ambitious producers is becasue of fruity loops & reason floating around on the net and these youngsters committing piracy.

akai know the market well and i bet its like this

1. Download Fruity Loops or Reason For Free
2. Try it for a while until they find its limitations
3. Look at buying some hardware (at this point their serious)

what do you know a youngsters see's the trendy fisher price MP1000 moderately priced (even an monthly allowance can get em one :-)

4. Buy the MP 1000

woila, you have another wet behind ear rookie in the game

only producers that are real serious gone fork over big bucks for classic machines that have proven themselves in the market for years
Last edited by cashstill on Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

Cashstill...you godda be kiddin

ByKingOfSwing Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:42 am
posted by Cashtill:

'from the promo pics i saw it looks like a fisher price
kind of toy'

'this machine must be geared towards teen agers'


..........................................................................


I dont think its aimed at teens, when they can barely afford even fruityloops.

nah...to me it looks like a new, fresh, well sized drum machine for the modern DAW producers of today.

1) Bang ure beats into the nice 'compact' space saving mpc 1000.
2) Do some swing tweakz...get a shuffle going.
3) record into the computer via the software sequencer.
4) loops the number of bars as required.
5) Add some classy Keyz from da sound modules, etc.
6) create more drum fills from the mpc...
7) add effects here and there...
8)etc
9) etc.

maybe it looks like a fisher price toy, but atleast it dont look like a boring grey cash till from the 80's.

that'l be $2.99 please...

"catch my drift...if you didnt, ime throwing another one later".

By cashstill Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:49 am
to each it's own

the only way i would buy that machine is if it had some "great" functionality to it beyond what I have now

that's the bottom line

Also...

ByKingOfSwing Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:59 am
Cashstill: any real producer getting into producing Hip Hop & RnB would go with a classic machine like the 2000XL before they fork over a grand for a "baby MP"

........................................................................................................

Why???

so that they can be another wannabe.

there is something call 'setting the trend'...it happens all the time, in fact every day.

i bet if Akai got Dr Dre or someone like Pharell Williams to do a commercial for the MPC 1000...like playing a lil hip hop beat live, etc. etc...even u would probably jump up and down.

and...let me say one more thing...if ure serious it dont mean you by the best..., you buy what you can afford.

i think maybe cashstill...u are finding it hard to except that a new, better lookin, and more affordable mpc is on its way.

I have 2 pioneer cdj 1000 turntable decks.

pioneer then released cdj 800's...which one of my friends purchased.

but there is nothing more the cdj 1000's can do that his 800's can't.

so with the mpc 1000, if u can bang out punchy beats and get a groove going with those 16 switches...then thats all that matters.

a classic machine aint gonna make you a better producer.
User avatar

By Swissmaster Cheese Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:11 am
[quote="cashstill"]quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by : Swissmaster Cheese

also akai know very well who use their products the most...and its definately the current hip hop market.

as more and more newbie users come into the scene they look at two routes...1) Software and 2) Hardware,

akai have realised this...and they know too well that lots and lots of young ambitious producers / beat makers want mpcs but dont bother coz they can go the software route and perhaps do same thing as the mpc.

---------------------------------------------------------------


actually you misquoted me...you're talking to king of swing I think 8)

cant say I agree with you though King has a point.....I think whatever puts a beat together is gonna get used..period...Cash, your line of thinking is the reason why herbs plop down 3g's on a 3k as their first machine...I think the 1000 can be considered pro despite the cheese look and anyways I always thought of the mpc 2kxl as pretty much entry level anyways so why try to propagate some elitist idea that only wannabees would want the 1000?...I think it'll expand the market and that will be great for everyone......

By mpc3000 Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:46 am
"the machine looks popcorn trendy and its screams "over here young buck get mama to buy you this machine for christmas" "

So, does it matter? Does anyone really care what the machine looks like? Are all those people that customized their MPC at Forat real producers?

"any real producer getting into producing Hip Hop & RnB would go with a classic machine like the 2000XL before they fork over a grand for a "baby MP""

Funny, I recall MPC3000 owners saying the same thing about the MPC2000 when it was released. So why is it different now? Is it because YOU own an MPC2000XL?

"the youth buying all the hip hop gear clothing. movie tickets, music cds (less then days of past since downloading) and even music equipment!
....
woila, you have another wet behind ear rookie in the game"

Weren't we all rookies at one time? Falls from high horses hurt too.

"only producers that are real serious gone fork over big bucks for classic machines that have proven themselves in the market for years"

I would not agree with this. I can go into more detail when I have more time. In general you haven't said anything that any existing owner of equipment has not said before. People have reacted this same predictable way when a newer peice of equipment is released that may possibly render what they own obsolete (in their own mind). I wish people would worry less about what other people are buying and why and take a hard look at what they are actually doing to better themselves.

And yes, I am getting the MPC1000. I do already own MPC3000 and MPC2000XL. Also, the poll results are very skewed since most repsondents already own an MPC and would be less likely to purchase another MPC. The results would be different at a more gear neutral location.
User avatar

By JusDaFied Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:25 am
I agree with your post 3000. The results are definately skewed and this is certainly not a random sample of the general gear public. But I was curious to find out what 2000xl owners were thinking about so the poll it is a good indicator of what those people are thinking, even if its not a good indicator of the public.

I myself own a 4000 and a 2000xl. To be honest, I've been a little dissapointed in the 4000 and as of late find myself using the 2000xl more. Probably because I'm just more used to it. I put myself as a maybe simply because I won't know for sure, until I actually see the puppy. I do really think I'm getting it though.
User avatar

By Dr.Foo Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:10 pm
JusDaFied wrote:Swing, welcome to the forum and way to jump in with a smart post.

I have to disagree with Foo, and now Swiss when you guys are assuming that there will be lesser components in the 1000 than the 2000xl and that it will be inferior to the 2000xl simply because of the price point. Swing is reiterating exactly what I said before, that Akai wants to sell more. It's basicly marketing.

Microeconomics in a nutshell:

If you can sell 10 units at $10 ($1000)

or 1000 units at $5 ($5000), which would you do?

Point is, don't think that the components will be inferior simply because of the cost. In fact, using different main components to the 2000xl would probably end up costing Akai more money.

Now obviously you have to factor in things like R&D costs, marketing and stuff like that into the price, but keep this in mind, the 1000 is really a convergence of new and old technology. A little of 2000xl and a little of the 4000. Looks to me, that if the 1000 is to be successful (and I believe it is), it's the 2000xl market that will suffer.


funny how you speak of econ but have no firm grasp of basic business concepts. YOU DONT RELASE A PEICE OF GEAR DESIGNED TO SUPPLANT YOUR 2 BIGGEST SELLERS< YOU RELEASE GEAR TO SUPPLANT THE COMPETITION.
#1 who cares what a piece of gear looks like, anyone who says "it looks better then X gear" immediatly has disqualified him/herself from the discussion.

#2 The "UK" may be pushing the 4000 but that is because HERE in the US we have ALL the options for pro audio. ive been to Europe and thier selection of pro audio is rather limited compared to the US market, (the largest in the world for pro audio) so, basically, the 4000 is being hyped there cuz they get a limited supply of whatever and it happens that Akai moves most 2000XL's in Japan and USA (call them and ask them where they ship most MPC 2000XL's to)

#3 Basic rules of econ state that in order to realase a product it must: 1 be compatible PRICE wise with the current line (IE you cant drop a BMW that costs 8000 dollars here in the USA cuz that would kill the 325 market here, in Europe where BMW drops WAY more models then in the US , you can since market proliferation is so high you can have many options. BASIC rule.

#4 keeping in mind this basic rule and that the USA is thier #1 market. Using different main components that are cheaper will cost akai money? are you crazy? the answer lies within the statement you made. This also goes against some basic rules of business. See, when you say that "you think the components that are cheaper will end up costing akai loot" (assuming they have soooo many other parts in stock they got them cheaper then the inferior parts for the 1000 right? this is what you are saying?!>) dog! WTF? Cheaper components cost less. WHAT BUSINESS WOULD SPEND MORE $$$ ON INFERIOR PARTS WHEN THEY CAN BUY NEW PARTS THAT ARE CHEAPER? NONE.

AKAI wants to sell more but THE 1000 AnD 2000XL AND 4000 ARE ALL LIKE THE 325I, 540, 740. THEY ARE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF THE SAME THING< SAME/SIMILAR DESIGN BUT DIFFERENT COMPONENTS AND DIFF. FEATURES DESIGNED TO MAKE THE GEAR DESIREABLE TO DIFFERENT MARKETS (IE the 325 to the young yuppies, the 740 to familuies, the 540 to the middle aged etc.) the same holds true for the MPC series THAT IS HOW YOU DO MARKETING you DO NOT sacrifice the 7 series to sell/hype the 3 series. You make them different to appeal to different groups. THE FEATURES, PRICE POINT, and OPTIONS MAKE THE 1000 set for NOOBS (Built in SOUNDS!!!!! what pro needs that?!?)

as to your "akai wants to sell units"- pro audio samplers are a niche market, so akai has to follow the 325\540\740 rules, JUST LIKE LUXURY CARS WHICH ARE ALSO A NICHE MARKET.

Its not an assumption, the 1000 WILL have something that makes the 2000xl/40000 better then it, otherwise there would be no need to have a 2000 or a 4000 and they would fall to the wayside, bascally eliminating all the cool $$$$ they make them (selling mpc 4000 memory for 3x's the price, CD burners for it, the sliders for the 2000 and the lcd's the buttons etc.) AKAI MAKES MONEY LIKE DELL, THEY SELL YOU GEAR THEN YOU HAVE TO USE THEM TO FIX IT, the DELL Model. Sell them gaer then use that to break even, then profit off support for the gear.

the goal for the 1000 is to take over the "325" market, that is currently dominated by the "benz CLK" (aka Roland/Yamaha). There are MARKETS akai wants to sell units to dominate the 325 market and push out the Benzes (roland/yamaha) the GOAL IS NOT TO COMPETE WITH YOURSELF the goal is to balance sales of all units to while maximizing sales of the new one to dominate a new market. THAT IS MARKETING. AGAIN THE GOAL IS NOT TO COMPETE WITH YOURSELF BUT TO DOMINATE A MARKET THEY DONT CONTROL NOW. BALANCING SALES OF THE UNITS IS ESSENTIAL TO THIS>THUS FROM THIS SIMPLE MARKETING RULE, we can draw that Akai will: sell the 1000 for less then the 2000xl (the 540 BMW) and will have to alter it in several ways so that the 2000XL and the 4000 are still appealing to users at thier current price points.
I just dont understand why you fail to grasp one of the most elementary concepts of business, #1 dont shoot yourself in the foot, #2 compete with competition not your own product line #3 if you make something better and cheaper then what you are making now you have to find ways to move them into different markets so they dont directly compete with each other. what you are talking about would be like if the Triton LE was BETTER then the Triton and Triton Studio. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO NOT COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER ETC> the MPC 1000/2000/4000 will be no different. Bet on that.

Speak on it.
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