Got some mo' advice.

One thing I've noticed on this site, is that most of us share a common bond. We all seem to be Hip Hop headz. That is we loved and still love the mid 90's era...( Heiroglyphics, Tribe) stuff like that. I think it's pretty dope.
Now for some advice.
1) Be Original. One thing we loved about that era is, whether it was Dre and Snoop with "G thang", Souls of Mischief with "93 'til infinity", or Mobb Deep with "Shook One's" every body was real different and had their own sound. Remember the days when you'd be CRUCIFIED if you sounded like anybody else. BITING was rule number 1 that you never broke. I'm saying that because somewhere along the way, the game changed for the worse and it became OK, actually not even OK, but mandatory and accepted. We're all guilty of it. You guys ever wonder why Timbaland, Kanye, Dre, or even the Neptunes are the sh#$, and are at the top of their game and why were always talking about them??? IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T SOUND LIKE ANYBODY ELSE! Kanye took that old soul sample style and made it his. Timbaland revolutionized the drum beat, and so on. So basically what I think I'm trying to say to everybody, including myself, is that we need to go back to that 90's era, as far as the creativity goes, and try to come up with our own s@#t. We can be responsible for bringing hip hop back, the creativity, the fun, all that stuff. Since Kanye blew up, I caught myself trying to make those kind of tracks, sampling soul stuff with the high pitch voices, but damn, that's already been done. That's not me. I do what I do, he does what he does, you do what you do.
So Basically don't be scared to be ORIGINAL. Try something different. If you hear something on the radion, DO THE OPPOSITE. I'm not saying always do it, but just try it sometimes. You'd be suprised the kind of stuff you'll come up with by just being different. Come up with your own ways to sample sh@#. It might be wrong as hell, but at least it will be your own. Come up with different ways to stack your snares or kicks. Turn off the quantize sometimes. At least once a week, make something that doesn't sound like anything else out. It might suck a**, but at least you'll get in the habit of doing different stuff.
Not trying to sound preachy, or corny or nuthin' this is just stuff I also do myself. I'm always trying to get better.

average wrote:Come up with your own ways to sample sh@#. It might be wrong as hell, but at least it will be your own. At least once a week, make something that doesn't sound like anything else out. It might suck a**, but at least you'll get in the habit of doing different stuff. I'm always trying to get better.

DAMN GOOD ADVICE, nuff said homie ...peace

I think hiphop becoming a big-money market ruined the creative side.
Record companies (and some artists) don't see originality as something they can make money off of. Sure the Neptunes/Timbaland are original and successful, but once something hits, the companies are looking for the next 20 Timbalands because that sound proved that it's sellable.

itchyvinyl wrote:I think hiphop becoming a big-money market ruined the creative side.
Record companies (and some artists) don't see originality as something they can make money off of. Sure the Neptunes/Timbaland are original and successful, but once something hits, the companies are looking for the next 20 Timbalands because that sound proved that it's sellable.

That's EXACTLY my point. Those guys originated their own sound. It's not their fault everybody jacked their style. And your totally right about it being the labels fault to. I've had A&R cats tell me, "Make something like such and such", or "give me a song that sounds like". Now my responsibility, or that matter, our responsibility as producers is to just give them you. We don't have to put on a monkey suit and dance around if we don't want to. It's a free country. I'm saying that cause I really mean it. If somebody tells me to give them something that sounds like Kanye, I'll tell em' to f#ck off and go get Kanye. That's just doin' my part to keep the game fresh.

90% of the hiphop i hear now sucks. to me the soul of hiphop is now carried by artists such as mr scruff, hexstatic, shadow and other ninja tune acts like coldcut.

that pioneering and clever DIY, a slight irreverance and the dedication of the daily operation.... not to mention crate diggers.... so many kids are buying up crappy sample cds... whats with that?


all this jay z and 50 cent stuff is horrible. i mean, even roots manuva blows that out of the water.


i wont argue what i hiphop and what is not, but i will mercilessly attack anyone who thinks hiphop should be mysoginistic drug peddling nonsense, or that it has to be stupid/dumbed down/whatever. i may lean more towards breaks (i was in a national touring breaks act that blew up on the radio, raves etc... recently played with Public Enemy) but i swear i know more about hiphop culture and the passion for crate digging then half the fubu wearing wannabe gangstas.

no "holla back". no "STUPID QUESTIONS IN CAPITALS" none of that shit is needed on here. lets get a little more intelligent about the music and where it comes from please.... ive nearly given up on this forum so many times cause of the stupid minority, but people like mesh, foo, lampdog and now average keep it alive.

oh and if you want to rip apart my music or just see what the hell im on about email/pm me. i like the general anonymity of these boards however (though youde be surprised theres some anonymous 'nig willies' on this board)

D_Samp wrote:90% of the hiphop i hear now sucks. to me the soul of hiphop is now carried by artists such as mr scruff, hexstatic, shadow and other ninja tune acts like coldcut.

that pioneering and clever DIY, a slight irreverance and the dedication of the daily operation.... not to mention crate diggers.... so many kids are buying up crappy sample cds... whats with that?


all this jay z and 50 cent stuff is horrible. i mean, even roots manuva blows that out of the water.


i wont argue what i hiphop and what is not, but i will mercilessly attack anyone who thinks hiphop should be mysoginistic drug peddling nonsense, or that it has to be stupid/dumbed down/whatever. i may lean more towards breaks (i was in a national touring breaks act that blew up on the radio, raves etc... recently played with Public Enemy) but i swear i know more about hiphop culture and the passion for crate digging then half the fubu wearing wannabe gangstas.

no "holla back". no "STUPID QUESTIONS IN CAPITALS" none of that **** is needed on here. lets get a little more intelligent about the music and where it comes from please.... ive nearly given up on this forum so many times cause of the stupid minority, but people like mesh, foo, lampdog and now average keep it alive.

oh and if you want to rip apart my music or just see what the hell im on about email/pm me. i like the general anonymity of these boards however (though youde be surprised theres some anonymous 'nig willies' on this board)

Aman to that!

D_Samp wrote:i wont argue what i hiphop and what is not, but i will mercilessly attack anyone who thinks hiphop should be mysoginistic drug peddling nonsense, or that it has to be stupid/dumbed down/whatever.

THANK YOU!!

I agree with just about everything you said....but careful with your comment about sample CDs. This site is funded by selling "sample packs."

I dig what you cats are saying. I make original stuff that don't sound like anyone, making sample based music. I'm built on the foundation of that golden era stuff like The Beatnuts, Hiero, Artifacts, Da King and I, Cypress Hill, Funkdoobiest, Wu Tang, etc. and I like alot of the new school hip hop stuff like Definitive Jux and Stones Throw and others, but I don't model my sound after them but derive influences that you can't even hear in my music. I feel that you should be influenced by the music that moves you but don't imitate it, do it justice by bringing your own brand in and using those influences to show you the differences... Tribe Called Quest and NWA did their thing, separate and original. It's not about the coast or the area but the influence and how you execute. Anybody can make some cookie cutter copycat stuff but originality comes from within you, not from the record company or your influence. Think about your favorite albums and what makes them so great...

Toecutter wrote:I dig what you cats are saying. I make original stuff that don't sound like anyone, making sample based music. I'm built on the foundation of that golden era stuff like The Beatnuts, Hiero, Artifacts, Da King and I, Cypress Hill, Funkdoobiest, Wu Tang, etc. and I like alot of the new school hip hop stuff like Definitive Jux and Stones Throw and others, but I don't model my sound after them but derive influences that you can't even hear in my music. I feel that you should be influenced by the music that moves you but don't imitate it, do it justice by bringing your own brand in and using those influences to show you the differences... Tribe Called Quest and NWA did their thing, separate and original. It's not about the coast or the area but the influence and how you execute. Anybody can make some cookie cutter copycat stuff but originality comes from within you, not from the record company or your influence. Think about your favorite albums and what makes them so great...

Hell yeah. I listen to Outkast, Heiro's new album, Lil Brotha and stuff like that all day just to feel the vibe and get hype. Sometimes I might try to capture a vibe I'm hearing, but I'll make a conscious ever to just leave it at that. If I start making sh#t that sounds like somebody else, I actually erase it. That's probably why I been like the Hip hop hermit and sh#t the past year and a half.

If fifty had skills he would have blown up years ago with the other numerous bullshit callabos/mixtapes , but all it took was 9 bullets + eminem. No dis to EM.
Golden era gives you respect and knowledge and also formulates some part of your style whether subliminal or not. Hip-hop's grown out like tree branches, some for the good some for the bad. But weak branches fall off. Strong branches contninue to grow. Or in the case of all you thuggy dunns out there- kill each other off-
Keep it original but never forget who built your foundation- peace

teach dem kulture.

Hey, this is good stuff! Every era has it's biters. Like, when sampling was the mainstream the 'first time', EPMD, Beatnuts, Tribe, the dawn of American Pop Danchall, whatever, you had the creators, and you had the parasites. The majority of music from any era is gonna be pure crap, and that's just the way it goes. For every groundbreaking group that came out of our 'golden era', you had a bunch of people copying thier sound at a passable margin. You think Trends of Culture is coming back? You think Lords of the Underground are career musicians? Well, I don't. They made passable, genre specific stuff, and although "Psycho" and "Off and On" are classics, they ain't anything groundbreaking or near original. It's just MORE hip-hop. We also know for a fact that most of what people think is hot right now will never have a second or third album, and won't go in the classics bin. I got more respect for someone talking about gratuitous violence and mysogany, but can be clever with it, over an original, driving beat, than for some cat who thinks he's a "good person" because he wants to copycat Slum Villiage and burns incence in the basement and sits around espousing rhetoric with his boys about how Nas should run for president and shit. Ha ha. Really dough, originality is VERY hard to come by. Just cus you don't talk about guns don't make you original. ALOT of underground stuff I hear is carbon copy of some '94 ish that couldn't cut it, because there is a bias there as well. Alot of dudes is like, if you talk about money, women, or life outside of 'peace and blessings' that you are bad for HipHop. But THEY are falling into the same reproduction loop as mainstream ish! As far as doing what others do: Hey, I WISH I had the luxury of turning down cats who wanted me to do a soundalike beat for cash! The ENTIRE industry is looking to replicate itself in any given era, cus I gotta eat, and you need a new chain, etc, etc on up the ladder. The greats make it, the other greats IMPROVE on it, and then losers copycat. Oh, I wanna give credit where it's due, too. You know, marley started with the voices samoling, but the RZA is the one who made it an art. Just Blaze and Kanye really got that from RZA, and improved on it in a different way. IDon;t hate me for being realistic, but just sometimes, you gotta "sell out", and that is a damn fact, homies. Don't let cats in your hood, or your man who lives with his parents tell you you are a sellout. A sellout is someone who can't get a leg up or do anything to better themselves and those around them. Now, that being said...
Like Average said, he's telling even HIMSELF: yo, we gotta stay fresh. Cus yes, it is almost imposible, especially in a highly connected global community where 'everything's been done already', to have a quote unquote original idea. But STRIVING for that; pushing the envelope, that is what creates evolution. People always wanna talk about unity and the group and everyone being equal and shit. We are NOT all equal. Maybe we are for the most part created equal, but we all know that goes out the window as soon as you touch down. Then, it's you who determines your LEVEL of sameness to the next person. I admit, I make music for people to enjoy, and I enjoy encorporating elements of familiarity for them to identify with. There is a reason WHY pop music has a kick and a snare. Cus it sounds good to human ears. Chords, progressions, same idea. But, the more I can keep it ME, while maintaining those elements that will draw the listener in, the better chance I have at making you understand me. And then, there are those things I don't want you to understand. We want to be accepted, but individuality is priceless. This world is not about lets all wear the same thing, talk the same, like the same things. It's about BEST man for the job, and original ideas insipring others to be original and to grow. It's about the ONE thing you have that they can't take away: yourself.
Thanks...

itchyvinyl wrote:THANK YOU!!

I agree with just about everything you said....but careful with your comment about sample CDs. This site is funded by selling "sample packs."

Yeah, but he was talking about crappy sample packs...

The 'biting' thing here in the uk is probably not as common as in the u.s. We've always had a hard time trying to get recognized in the states which has led us to not want to copy american producers, but to find what we like about late 80's early 90's hip hop and apply to what we know, our own sound. it's a difficult hing to do when a country so big as america has already influenced the world with hip hop music, and nowadays the hip hop music is not as we know it. I guess what it boils down to is how you relate to the music. Over here when I here british hip-hop, roots manuva, the nextmen, skitz, they all have a british sound that I relate to, the lyrics I can relate to coz they're talking about things in my country that I know of, the language of how they ryhme things we all know in the uk. I don't know about the bronx, or from the hood. I love old skool hip-hop as much as the next person, the beats of mantronix, Pete rock, marley marl, PE, eric b and rakim are beats to this day that still sound fresh compared to the crap that is now in the charts. Y'know what I mean. All the breaks stuff, choppin, etc etc. it wasn't about what they ryhmed abput , it was about the feel of the music, and that I feel is lost, when so many people are trying to sound like others. that's why at the moment for me uk hip hop is at a good point , we're not trying to be like anyone else coz we tried that ten years ago and it didn't work. so now we're masters at not sounding like everyone else which gets you more noticed. The reason why these new producers in the u.s.are getting so much work is because the sound of the 'new" charts wants them (fair enough). If you try to copy their sound then you are not doing yourself a favour, but adding to the crap that's already out.

The way it works is this: We all write, engineer, mix, and master differemtly. Think of it like 'sex'. We all know how to do it, but we never got taught. We know it through practice. There's no good or bad way to mix. Just the way you feel it should be mixed. By allowing yourself to be original in the writing, mixing, engineering process you are setting yourself a challenge by using your own ingenuity, something that's very personal to you, based on your experiences, your view of the world, so it becomes unique and different to anyone else's.

Average and all.
I feel ya. All I wanna add is that when I think about your commentary, I keep thinking about the idea that no one would or should have to tell an artist any of that. And I guess that's the issue. The idea of artistry of craft is foreign or at least is not important. I'm an old head. Been listening to this music, Black Music for a long time. Last week, I talked with two sistas who are older than me, one a painter/sculptor from D.C., the other a playwright and actress from Manchester, UK.

We discussed Hiphop. Both of them preferred that people stop using the term, "Hiphop artist." and they both talked about JayZ's public "retirement" as an example of why the term should be dismissed. They both thought that he would have some amazing things to say at 40. They asked how an artist, can retire. An artist isn't a career, it's a lifestyle. You don't retire from being Black, or Irish, or Muslim. BB King started as a teenager and dude is still playing and loving it. And he worked hard!!!!! James Brown, same thing and I could go on and on.... These sistas definitely hit something on the head.

And when you think about how many cats have "retired" from slanging drugs to slanging beats, well no wonder people call music making, "the game." Yup. You are right. But, in the end, we'll see how many folks are still doing this in a few minutes.

Peace.