simult

Yes, it's official, the mpc internal timing is fuzzy and gives phasing issues.
I did it with the mpc1000, somebody check if the mpc2500 is any better.

*****THE TEST*****

Just do this::

get a blank sequence.

put the same program on tracks 1 thru 4.

pick one sound to use.

(I used DJ-Hip-Set pad A06 : DJ_SN2.)

turn on 'full level'.

On track 1 use note repeat to record a 2-bar loop of straight 16th notes, no swing.

Use Seq Edit mode to copy the notes onto tracks 2, 3 and 4. Check that each track contains identical note timing.

Now press play and let your ears fill with the obvious sound of mad phasing all over the place- phasing that clearly changes every note, at random.

******************

Please try this, and confirm if u get the same thing.

If we had a 'simult' it might not solve this problem.

If we had separate filtering per layer, it would probably solve the problem although not if their programming was sloppy.

I wish I had some extra MPCs laying around to confirm this...but I believe you will get the same results from any MPC.

yeah, wouldn't this have happened on the 2000, etc anyway?

EDIT::

Okay, Okay, I will eat my words about one aspect of this.

I did another test and I found that even the layering function still leads to phasing. I admit, I was not expecting that since layering and duplicate tracks are not the same thing. Or at least they shouldn't be...

I have had some experience in audio programming and DSP code and I have to say I'm kind of disappointed that they couldn't even make the layering sample-accurate. That's weak imho, it shouldn't be that hard.

So I will join everyone who suggested re-sampling as the only good way to achieve a consistant layered drumhit.

i guess i keep failing to realize why anyone would want to layer 2 of the exact same sound...ever...

?
could someone explain this?

Antonym wrote:i guess i keep failing to realize why anyone would want to layer 2 of the exact same sound...ever...

?
could someone explain this?

Nah, you wouldn't need to layer the same sound. But phasing (or something like it) can still happen if you are layering 2 different sounds. It doesn't sound like phasing, but it does sound like your drum sound is different every time instead of being consistent. It would be more noticable with some sounds more than others.

Using the same sound just exaggerates the problem and makes it easy to prove/demonstrate the timing error im talking about.

EDIT::

If u want to hear it with 2 different sounds, try layering DJ_SN with DJ_SNARE2. Then play some fast 16th notes with note repeat. You can hear a kind of random accent pattern as some of the hits seem to have a sharper attack than others.

Now, I'll be the first to admit this random variation is sometimes actually a good thing. But not always.

on the mpc 2000 when I used simult I layered the same sound twice but filtered one of them ..........after I did that their was no phasing and a hard sounding kick ...now on the mpc 2500 I have to copy the track and go into step edit and change the program to the filtered kick ....and when their is 2 kicks on two seprate tracks ...sometimes they dont line up ..even with the same events happining on both tracks. at the same time....with the simult option ...this triggered other pads so you could use the filters from the other pad aswell layer it with the orginal one so you could play the final kick "live" instead of playing a flat kick then copying the track ...and layering it with a filtered kick ....that takes far to much time and makes trouble like phasing issuses ...hopfully things will happen...I v just been using the work around like everyone else

Do you guys have these sanples assigned to the same mute group which will cause one or more samples not to play at a given time?

jahrome wrote:Do you guys have these sanples assigned to the same mute group which will cause one or more samples not to play at a given time?

I can only assume that they dont since they want them to play simultaneously, and if they werent playing simultaneously then most definitely no phasing would, or even could occur!

right. gotcha.

i layer all my kicks, all the time...and have never run into this. i always use a deep bassy kick for body and a "skin" of a kick from a record for...well, skin. the skin is low volume, the body is high volume/pitched down. their frequencies never overlap this way, and the result is clean and sounds good. later on, i compress this down. the result is a decently accoustic drum hit that bangs harder than just the original skin would have - and the compression melts everything together nicely. roll off the bottom end, boost it around 160 (before compression, of course) and you're damn near good to go.

if only i was as good at layering snares.

Antonym wrote:right. gotcha.

i layer all my kicks, all the time...and have never run into this. i always use a deep bassy kick for body and a "skin" of a kick from a record for...well, skin. the skin is low volume, the body is high volume/pitched down. their frequencies never overlap this way, and the result is clean and sounds good. later on, i compress this down. the result is a decently accoustic drum hit that bangs harder than just the original skin would have - and the compression melts everything together nicely. roll off the bottom end, boost it around 160 (before compression, of course) and you're damn near good to go.

if only i was as good at layering snares.

Yeah, I agree it all depends on what sounds you are using/ trying to achieve. That sounds like a good method for kicks.

Probably its something i notice more cause i do techno and often im layering 2 similar synth sounds or something.

Probably its something i notice more cause i do techno and often im layering 2 similar synth sounds or something.

that'll do it.

Try layering a tom type sound and a noise sound for snares.

udenjoe wrote:Try layering a tom type sound and a noise sound for snares.

weird! i will. when you say noise, i assume you just mean some white or pink?

i'll write this down. sounds like a cool experiment.

peace, thanks.
nym

well maybe version 1.20 will have this feature....but I m happy for now!

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